Chloe Webb - Sid and Nancy (1986) Discussion

[–] alexwarju 15 years ago

I haven't seen any of her other work, so when I ask this it is to lighten up the dark I'm in. Is she really that annoying or was it just her portraying Nancy?

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[–] HaIloween 15 years ago

It was just her portraying Nancy. By all accounts, Nancy was an extremely loud, brash and annoying person to be around.
I thought Chloe Webb was amazing in this movie.

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[–] alexwarju 15 years ago

Oh, then in that case she captured her well, but I don't know how far from her personality that really was.

Either way she did good.

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[–] Sulalee 15 years ago

Chloe Webb was too over-the-top for me to like in this movie..
Nancy was probably shrill and annoying when she was high, but she actually held her sh-- together, unlike Sid, when it came to promoting Sid's crappy music in these interviews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKElZoRXcrI

She was actually funny trying to tell Sid to wake up and stop wasting this reporter's time in this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raEXGXw5VJM

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[–] hopefin2000 15 years ago

She was known as "Nauseating Nancy" if that tells you anything. Chloe Webb did a fine job portraying both the loud/brash and vulnerable sides of Nancy.

I put the fun in dysfunction!

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[–] Kevin_Khaos 15 years ago

The only other movie I have seen her in was Twins, I thought she played the part well, but with all the Makeup she wore she kinda looked like a drag queen, the real Nancy was alot better looking than Chloe Webb..

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[–] garland_greene 15 years ago

The real Nancy was beautiful, in the movie she's err..not so pretty. Judging by videos i've seen she didn't seem to be as annoying as Chloe played her either.

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[–] james_oblivion 14 years ago

Are you bloody kidding? If anything, Chloe Webb wasn't ugly enough to be Nancy. She certainly wasn't anywhere near FAT enough to be Nancy.

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[–] Kiwifalling 15 years ago

The problem is, I had trouble seeing why anyone would find Nancy captivating (portrayed in the movie). She didn't have any alluring qualities - no mystery, no intelligence or humor - she wasn't even pretty or sexy. She was a desperate cling-on, and Sid was brushing her off most of the time instead of the other way around. The Nancy in the movie felt like someone you would screw around with for kicks and then leave the next morning.

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[–] hopefin2000 15 years ago

The real Nancy was pretty. She was also EXTREMELY intelligent- although in the film it really didn't get portrayed that way. The one line that I remember her saying that really was so sad, was near the end, when she said to Sid, "You're wrong- I see everything..." She did see things for the way they were and she didn't portray herself to be anything she wasn't.

She apparently was not a pleasant person to be around, but then again- how many junkies are pleasant people?

I put the fun in dysfunction!

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[–] james_oblivion 14 years ago

The real Nancy was pretty.

Man, I'm really out of touch if this is anything like a common perception. Cuz I think Nancy was a fat, hideous junkie whore with a face like a boxer in drag make-up.

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[–] coolbluegreen 14 years ago

james oblivion wrote: <<Man, I'm really out of touch if this is anything like a common perception. Cuz I think Nancy was a fat, hideous junkie whore with a face like a boxer in drag make-up.>>

What a vile thing to write. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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[–] ztpt 13 years ago

what? for writing the truth?
They called her "nausiating nancy" for a reason you know..

Also this movie is 50-75% fiction

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[–] coolbluegreen 13 years ago

ztpt wrote: <<They called her "nausiating nancy" for a reason you know.. >>

I have often wondered WHAT reason would compel someone to pick out a teenage girl (Nancy was 20 when she killed) who had a long history of mental illness and drug addiction and who died as the result of a violent crime and FURTHER dehumanize her by calling her "Nauseating Nancy."

That's a terrible thing to do. I have always felt for her. I am glad I didn't know her. I think she would have made life very difficult for those around her. However, I don't know why SHE is picked on when others -- who were far more cruel -- get a pass. Sid may have murdered her, yet he gets a pass? In fact, Nancy is blamed for Sid's death. That's rich -- she was dead three months when Sid died, dead probably by his hand, yet she is blamed for his overdose.

I fear that people saw her as a victim and further victimized her. She was female. She wasn't a stereotypical beauty (and we all know it's a sin for a female to be anything other than beautiful). She had mental problems and drug problems -- JUST LIKE many other men in that scene, but for some reason, she takes all the blame. Ridiculous.

Nancy didn't murder anyone. She didn't abandon any spouse and children (Johnny Thunders, anyone?). She didn't sexually exploit and physically abuse underage girls (Oh, look, Johnny Thunders again! And many others!). Yet those men get passes while Nancy, a 20-year-old murder victim is blamed for her own murder, blamed for the deaths who died AFTER she died, and is generally dehumanized and insulted. That's nauseating -- she's not -- a world that does that is.

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[–] TheLightFantastic 13 years ago

I have often wondered WHAT reason would compel someone to pick out a teenage girl (Nancy was 20 when she killed) who had a long history of mental illness and drug addiction and who died as the result of a violent crime and FURTHER dehumanize her by calling her "Nauseating Nancy."

That's a terrible thing to do. I have always felt for her. I am glad I didn't know her. I think she would have made life very difficult for those around her. However, I don't know why SHE is picked on when others -- who were far more cruel -- get a pass. Sid may have murdered her, yet he gets a pass? In fact, Nancy is blamed for Sid's death. That's rich -- she was dead three months when Sid died, dead probably by his hand, yet she is blamed for his overdose.

I fear that people saw her as a victim and further victimized her. She was female. She wasn't a stereotypical beauty (and we all know it's a sin for a female to be anything other than beautiful). She had mental problems and drug problems -- JUST LIKE many other men in that scene, but for some reason, she takes all the blame. Ridiculous.

Nancy didn't murder anyone. She didn't abandon any spouse and children (Johnny Thunders, anyone?). She didn't sexually exploit and physically abuse underage girls (Oh, look, Johnny Thunders again! And many others!). Yet those men get passes while Nancy, a 20-year-old murder victim is blamed for her own murder, blamed for the deaths who died AFTER she died, and is generally dehumanized and insulted. That's nauseating -- she's not -- a world that does that is.

You honestly need to lighten up. The people on this board didn't dub her "Nauseating Nancy", people who dealt with her did and knew her in REAL life did. If you have a bone to pick with people "dehumanizing" her (which is rather difficult seeing as she's dead, dead, dead), I suggest you track those people down and give them this speech. Her own mother even admits that she was hard to be around and alienated most of the human race due to her abrasive personality and erratic behavior. That's saying a hell of a lot right there because most mothers defend their children to the ends of the earth. Fact of the matter remains she was a difficult human being. Death - no matter what manner - does not absolve one's traits or flaws.

I can see your point to a degree, but then you go off on a tangent about her being a woman and blah, blah, blah and yeah...you lost all credibility with that malarkey. Most people find her annoying simply because she most likely was - it has nothing to do with her being seemingly unattractive to some. You can be a shi**y person without leaving your spouse or even doing some of the other things you mention. If you want to canonize this woman simply because she was stabbed to death, go for it, but don't expect others to do the same.

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[–] coolbluegreen 13 years ago

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<You honestly need to lighten up.>>

Really? I think you need to be more compassionate and less of an asswipe.

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<The people on this board didn't dub her "Nauseating Nancy",>>

Did I say they did?

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<people who dealt with her did>>

Actually, I believe Saturday Night Live did.

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<and knew her in REAL life did. If you have a bone to pick with people "dehumanizing" her (which is rather difficult seeing as she's dead, dead, dead), I suggest you track those people down and give them this speech.>>

People who I quoted wrote terrible things about her HERE. So, I responded HERE. And she was dehumanized and still is. You can dehumanize the dead. They were once human and alive.

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<Her own mother even admits that she was hard to be around and alienated most of the human race due to her abrasive personality and erratic behavior.>>

She was mentally ill. She was all those things. Did you even read what I wrote? Could you understand it? I don't think I would have liked her, but I certainly have compassion for her, a very young, unhappy woman with a serious, undiagnosed mental illness.

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<That's saying a hell of a lot right there>>

Yes, it's saying she was mentally ill and difficult. I don't dispute that. I just think it calls for compassion.

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<because most mothers defend their children to the ends of the earth. Fact of the matter remains she was a difficult human being. Death - no matter what manner - does not absolve one's traits or flaws.>>

Uh, did I say it did? No, I didn't.

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<I can see your point to a degree, but then you go off on a tangent about her being a woman and blah, blah, blah and yeah...you lost all credibility with that malarkey>>

It wasn't malarky. What, you think women don't face judgments men don't? Please. Did you see the part where someone wrote <<She didn't have any alluring qualities - no mystery, no intelligence or humor - she wasn't even pretty or sexy. >> Hello? That's REAL. Women face that and it's not malarky.

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<Most people find her annoying simply because she most likely was>>

I never said she wasn't. I said it's ridiculous that she is blamed for Sid's death, which occurred three months after she was dead. I said I don't like it when people make nasty comments about her looks -- not her personality -- her looks.

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<- it has nothing to do with her being seemingly unattractive to some.>>

Yes, looks mean nothing in this society -- or in any society. Have you noticed how often people mention her looks? Please.

TheLightFantastic wrote: << You can be a shi**y person without leaving your spouse or even doing some of the other things you mention.>>

True -- but she didn't do dreadful things that other people did, people who are considered heroes. That makes me wonder -- what the *beep*? How is Johnny Thunders, a woman-beater who abandoned his kids, lionized, while Nancy, who was just irritating, dragged through the mud. There is some double standard going on here. You can't see it.

TheLightFantastic wrote: <<If you want to canonize this woman simply because she was stabbed to death, go for it, but don't expect others to do the same. >>

You really have no idea what I wrote, do you? How on earth could you think I canonized Nancy? Really -- find one sentence that shows I did that. You can't. I didn't.

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[–] sidgirl 12 years ago

Coolbluegreen, I know you wrote this a long time ago, but I agree with every word you've said here (and in your other posts). And yes, SNL dubbed her "Nauseating Nancy." Was she probably difficult to get along with, irritating at times, etc.? Sure. Who among us isn't? Lots of people on the autistic spectrum are that way, too, is it okay to rip them apart for it and call them names?

This was a troubled young woman who deserved and deserves compassion, and who died before her life could honestly begin. This was a troubled young woman who was and still is honestly loved by her family and friends. I'm so tired of the dehumanization of people.

Have you ever heard/read any interviews with Debbie Harry, where she talks about Nancy? She usually doesn't, but she's made a few comments over the years, about how Nancy wasn't the way she's portrayed, that she was a kind and smart woman and Debbie honestly loved her, and that it hurts her to see how her friend has been villainized and picked on and insulted.

As for Thunders...I'm a huge fan of his music. :-) But I find it interesting, and this becomes more and more obvious, upsetting, and disturbing to me over the years, that we regularly excuse certain behaviors in men that we attack women for. A male addict is an addict; a female addict is a disgusting whore. It's just slut-shaming on a grand scale. I think Nancy is just another victim of it.

Anyway, thanks for your post. It makes me feel better to see someone else who speaks up against the casual cruelty and inhumanity.

I'm new, please be kind!

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[–] coolbluegreen 12 years ago

Sidgirl, thank you for your post. I am glad to see that you can identify slut-shaming for what it is and I appreciate the support. The more people who speak out, the better off all of us are. Why women buy into this slut-shaming -- why they don't even question it -- why they give men a pass as they bash their own sex -- baffles and disgusts me. It disgusts me when men do it -- but when women do it, I am just baffled. I want to say, "Do you realize you are accepting a horrible double standard that you will be held to as well?" The more of us who speak out in support of one another, the better. Thank you again!

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[–] yaegers 12 years ago

I'm another late responder, but I want you to know that I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've written here. It's truly horrifying to me that a 20 year old girl who was murdered becomes the monster while her alleged murderer becomes the martyr. She may have been abrasive, she was clearly ill, but she absolutely didn't deserve to die that way, nor does she deserve to be remembered this way. Also, while her mother did speak to her abrasive nature, and the pain of being around someone who is in so much psychic pain, she also openly disagrees with the horrifying way her daughter is portrayed in this film. There's a vast difference between acknowledging someone's issues and vilifying them. This film, the SNL skits, and the tabloid accounts of her life vilify her. Her mother's book acknowledges her problems.

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[–] coolbluegreen 12 years ago

yaegers, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

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[–] fuchsiasattic 12 years ago

I agree with you. I feel really sad for Nancy. I read "And I Don't Want to Live This Life" by Nancy's mom, and it was really heartbreaking. She was clearly a very troubled and psychologically unstable person, but was also brilliant. She wasn't just "annoying" for the sake of being annoying, she had something seriously wrong with her, which wasn't her fault.

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[–] coolbluegreen 14 years ago

Lolaposen wrote: <<The problem is, I had trouble seeing why anyone would find Nancy captivating (portrayed in the movie). She didn't have any alluring qualities - no mystery, no intelligence or humor - she wasn't even pretty or sexy. She was a desperate cling-on, and Sid was brushing her off most of the time instead of the other way around. The Nancy in the movie felt like someone you would screw around with for kicks and then leave the next morning. >>

I know we are discussing movie-Nancy and real-Nancy here.

Actually, the real Nancy was quite intelligent -- book smart. Nancy went to college when she was only 16 (she was kicked out, of course). I know someone who went to college with her. And I believe it was Iggy Pop who said real-Nancy was sexy, that she "had something."

Obviously, Sid never brushed her off. He barely lasted, what, three months, without her? Then he died himself. He was obviously attached to her -- he wouldn't leave her, although his band and friends wanted him to.

I think the real Nancy WAS a difficult, vulnerable, unhappy, and complicated person. I think Chloe Webb portrayed that.

As for your last sentence, I think real and movie Nancy probably was used to being "screw(ed) around with for kicks and then [left]." BTW, I hope you never treat anyone that way. People who do that are vile.

You see that she is used to being treated that way when she wakes up after her first night with Sid and automatically starts gathering her clothes so she can leave. Her surprise and pleasure when he stops her, tells her to stay, and embraces her, are just heart-breaking.

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[–] Shneezy 14 years ago

Well said!

Also, if anyone's confused, just look at pictures of the real Nancy, or check out the videos posted on youtube. She was pretty cute, and definitely more readily attractive than Chloe Webb. And I find it very hard to believe that Nancy was as annoying as Chloe Webb - brash and ill-mannered is one thing, but just downright-whiny-annoying is different. Webb is really, really annoying, so much so that I can't even stand the scenes she's trying to pull off by herself (the music promoter scene, for example, where Nancy gets Sid some gigs). She seriously seems like a character from Jersey Shore rather than an early punk anarchist. Seriously.

This is an easy comparison - Sid Vicious is also described as brash and ill-mannered, and yet I still like watching Gary Oldman. In fact, when Gary Oldman is brash, it is lively and interesting. Chloe Webb seems to be acting like someone acting like they're a rude person. Oldman is just being rude and nasty. This has nothing to do with the way Webb looks, it's just that she's not as good an actor. Which seems pretty evident, though the initial comment here, that "Chloe Webb is the heart and soul of this movie," seems to beg a comparison.

Another good, albeit strange comparison would be Joan Jett. She was a pretty rude bitch, and definitely poorly mannered. But Kristen Stewart's Joan Jett was fun to watch. She was rude and nasty, but the character was believable. (And I don't even like Kristen Stewart, but she did a good Joan Jett). Chloe Webb doesn't give enough to her character, she doesn't round it out so that we, as an audience, care about her bad manners. I'm also thinking here of Leonardo Dicaprio in Total Eclipse, where he plays the grandfather of rudeness, Arthur Rimbaud. That was rude, even disgusting, but you liked the character as you watched. The character was complete and interesting, and you understood that the rudeness actually STOOD for something, that it was a statement. That's what's missing from Webb's portrayal here. The real Nancy was part of the punk scene, was anti-government and anarchical. Where is that in Webb's portrayal? All I saw was an annoying, bitchy idiot who clung to Sid's side because she was too stupid to do otherwise. This wasn't exactly what Nancy was all about. And if she were, she would have done it honestly and truthfully - she wouldn't have whined her way through everything, she would've screamed.

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[–] Xeokym 15 years ago

The one interview is funny because it's like, an interview with the 2 most BORING people in the world, at that moment...and Nancy says "come ON Sid, I'll go get you a cup of coffee..." I don't know if anyone's ever been addicted to opiates before, but if you're doing that "heroin nod," aint NO cup of coffee in the world that's strong enough to perk you up.

¸«¤º°»«ëÕ|{¥(V)°º¤»¸
I can't understand your crazy moon language.

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[–] ANDREWEHUNT 15 years ago

I remember reading somewhere that Nancy Spungen's family wasn't happy with Chloe Webb's performance in this film (or the way her character was written in the screenplay). They thought Webb was too obnoxious and loud and stupid. If you compare photos of the two, Webb does look too old to play Spungen, in my opinion. They should have found a younger actress. Actually, Courtney Love would've been a great person to play Nancy. She was 22 at the time and was actually in the film briefly (as a friend of Nancy's).

I have to admit, while I think that Chloe Webb is a talented actress, she is the main reason I don't like this movie very much. I find her much too grating.

"You can dish it out, but you got so you can't take it no more." - Caesar Enrico Bandello

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[–] Blondfashionisto 15 years ago

She played an addict on 'Two and a Half Men' who has a date with Alan. I thought she looked great but didn't remember she was in this film until I just saw it again. I wonder if they specifically wrote her character that way for Two and a Half Men as she plays a former junkie!

The performances were great but the film and story were quite gritty and depressing...

'This isn't a smile. It's the lid on a scream.' - Bet Lynch, Coronation Street

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[–] james_oblivion 14 years ago

Oldman and Webb give the only two performances in this film that are worth anything. In fact, their performances are the only redeeming factors in an otherwise awful movie.

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[–] cpbockman-1 14 years ago

"In fact, their performances are the only redeeming factors in an otherwise awful movie."

So how can it be an "otherwise awful movie" if the "only redeeming factors" are in practically every shot? The film is great, no matter how far-fetched some of it might be. If you find the whole junkie vibe distasteful, that's just you. You don't have to like it, but many other people do, hence the 7.0 rating on this site!

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] helkaermala 12 years ago

I haven't seen this movie yet, but I have read the book by Deborah Spungen (Nancy's mother), and I totally agree with you about Webb looking too old to play Nancy. Having seen pictures of Nancy, Webb and Courtney Love, I would say that Webb is the outsider, who doesn't match.

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[–] jefgg 8 years ago

Courtney Love recorded an infamous video audition in which she exclaimed, "I am Nancy Spungen." Cox was impressed by Love's audition, but has said the film's investors insisted on an experienced actress for the co-leading role. Therefore, instead, Cox wrote the minor role of Gretchen, one of Sid and Nancy's New York junkie friends, specifically for her benefit. Cox would later cast Love as one of the leads in Straight to Hell (1987). Coincidentally, Love would be compared to Spungen later in life on account of her marriage to Kurt Cobain.

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[–] TheArgentinian (7061) 2 years ago

Oldman gets all the praise but CW stole the movie from him, imo

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[–] rex (2828) 2 years ago

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[–] Druff (1796) 2 years ago

For years, my only 'experience' of Nancy was this movie. I assumed the real Nancy was just as bad.

Over time, I gradually saw more and more bits of footage of the real Nancy here and there, and eventually I realized that, yes, the real Nancy was a piece of work... but Chloe Webb's portrayal was laying it on REALLY thick. The real Nancy was obnoxious, but not THAT obnoxious. Webb made Nancy seem borderline retarded, whereas the real Nancy seemed at least somewhat sharp, for a junkie groupie slut. The real Nancy was also at least slightly more attractive than Webb, but I'm not going to fault anyone for that. Dale Bozzio would have been perfect, if she could act. More recently, maybe Lady Gaga.

Gary Oldman's Sid is a bit turned up to 11 too, but not as bad as Webb.

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