MovieChat Forums > The Name of the Rose (1986) Discussion > Statue of Mary in the chapel

Statue of Mary in the chapel

posted 17 years ago by scutterluke
9 replies | jump to latest

Why when the film is set in the middle(dark)ages is the statue of Mary in the chapel which both the Franciscan monk on the run and Christian Slatters character pray to, of the renaissance style. The art in the books in the library tower is of the pre renaissance style. The bodies are crude and not to scale, this is true of any art of the medieval period but the sculpture of Mary is amazingly concise, and resembles the style of a Bernini statue, but is 300 year too early. Why was so much effort put into setting this film in its period but then such a major element wrongly dated?

This then leads to my next question on historical accuracies and inaccuracies, aren’t they looking at the work of Aristotle a bit early. It was the study (or re- study) of ancient Greek and Latin/Roman text, which kick started the renaissance in western Europe, but in the middle ages this information was lost or hidden or forgotten which is why they are often refereed to as the dark ages, but these monks are studying the work of ancient Greek philosophers much to early. They would have being accused of heresy for even considering reading the works of these non Christian evil pagans?

Doesn't this film move the renaissance forward by about 100 years??

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 17 years ago

The director points out the anachronistic statue in his commentary. I don't recall what he says about why they used it, but it was probably because it was what they had.

As for Aristotle, well, William of Ockham is a contemporary of Brother William and Thomas Aquinas has been dead for almost half a century at the time of the film. So no, the references to Aristotle are not anachronistic. (Nor would we expect them to be, since they come from the novel and Eco, himself a medievalist, did his homework.)

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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

[–] marcigabrielle 16 years ago

It was in the 13th century that the texts by Aristotle started to be studied again, and that prepared the road for the Renaissance.

Poetics had been translated from Greek to Arab by Averroes in the mid 12th century, and in 1253 Hermannus Alemannus translated it from Arab to Latin. That version was widely circulated during the last years of the Middle Ages.

The motor for the re-discovery of Aristotle was trying to keep up with the Arabs, who were ahead technologically with respect to Europe.

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[–] JM_Dalmeijer 16 years ago

The director points out the anachronistic statue in his commentary. I don't recall what he says about why they used it, but it was probably because it was what they had.

True. In Eco's book, the statue of Mary is particularly sexy, by medieval standards. The production designer couldn't find a single sexy medieval statue, so the production staff made one.
Jean Jaques Annaud wasn't too happy when he saw the finished requisite, because it screams Renaissance, not middle ages. Since it was the only statue they could use during filming, they used it. The production designer suggested that probably no-one would notice, but as soon as The Name Of The Rose was out in the theatres all over Europe, Annaud received a couple of thousand letters from viewers to state that the statue of Mary was an anachronism...

[–] ronnieronb 16 years ago

I'm sure that most viewers aren't well versed in the subject matter.

bushtony and his mother suffer from Congential Stupidty and they didn't see it coming.

[–] cbruno4723 16 years ago

I think Jorge, in wanting to keep the book hidden, was acting exactly in accordance with the general attitudes of men in the middle ages. What we now call ancient texts were never entirely erased from the consciousness of humanity in the middle ages. I think you may just be viewing the transition from the middle ages to the renaissance as being more sharply defined than it really was (which is the tendency of us all to try and simplify history so that we are able to process it - in reality, history is immensely complex and no one living now was around back then, so assuming that a monk at an abbey that had one of the world's greatest libraries would not be aware of Aristotle's writings because it was the middle ages and not the renaissanc is presumptious). I think the book did an excellent job of providing a feel for attitudes and culture of that time , and Umberto Eco has obviously done a tremendous amount of research of that period in history.

[–] Blueghost 16 years ago

It's a visual that the audience can identify with. It's not historically accurate, but it can be identified by the people watching the film, and hence get the overall messag e and feel of the film across to said audience.

It's always a balancing act between story and accuracy when it comes to period flicks. A medieval painting of Mary might not have registered with the audience as well as a full bodied three-dimensional statue.

[–] onepotato2 16 years ago

The monks were clearly hiding a time machine in the library, which they used to steal nicer pieces of art from the future.
Duh.

[–] scutterluke 16 years ago

Ha ha ha Best answer ever. I just re read this thread and thought GOD DAMM thats a well put first question, then realised it was me. I'm both a fool and an arrogant git. Thank you all for your answers,, more recent study had brought me to the conclussion that yes in fact they would have both known and studied the books at that time even if they were from Arabian translations post Curssades and that in fact the Greeks were well stuidied in the middle ages, just not mentioned too much because they were pagans. And as for the statue your answers have filled in that gap, thank you.

[–] Sextus 16 years ago

more recent study had brought me to the conclussion that yes in fact they would have both known and studied the books at that time even if they were from Arabian translations post Curssades

They were from translations from the Arabic and Hebrew and also directly from the Greek. And the Crusades had nothing to do with it. They got access to these works again via interaction with Arab and Jewish scholars in Spain and Sicily. For details see Richard E. Rubenstein's Aristotle's Children: How Christians, Muslims, and Jews Rediscovered Ancient Wisdom and Illuminated the Middle Ages. It dispels a lot of the cliches about the Medieval Church's attitude to "pagan" learning and about the intellectual environment in the Middle Ages generally. The chapters on the advances in science in the period alone would be an eye-opener to anyone who believes the old Nineteenth Century myths about this being a "dark age":

http://www.amazon.com/Aristotles-Children-Christians-Rediscovered-Illu minated/dp/0156030098

in fact the Greeks were well stuidied in the middle ages, just not mentioned too much because they were pagans.

I don't know where you got the idea that they "weren't mentioned much" - they revolutionised intellectual life in the Middle Ages, were revered as the ultimate authority on most questions apart from the Bible and the study of their work in Medieval universities laid the foundations of the later scientific revolution. That's why you can find sculptures of people like Plato, Aristotle and Euclid in Medieval cathedrals. See Edward Grant's The Foundations of Modern Science in the Middle Ages for details.

http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Modern-Science-Middle-Ages/dp/052156 7629

Umberto Eco's novel actually touches on all this, but unfortunately the movie presented a more cliched depiction of the Medieval Period as a time of superstition and made William of Baskerville out to be some kind of abberation. Notice the scene where he quickly covers up his astrolabe and other astronomical instruments as the Abbot enters his cell. No real Medieval friar would have done that and no real Medieval Abbot would have had a problem with astronomy. He would be more likely to be interested and impressed or even familiar with the instruments and used to using them himself.

http://www.historyversusthedavincicode.com
History vs The Da Vinci Code