The title
Why is the movie called "The Name of the Rose"?
shareBecause the book is.
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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Why is the book called "The Name of the Rose"?
shareWhy is the book called "The Name of the Rose"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Name_of_the_Rose#Title.
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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
That's one of the reasons why I got a little mad at the film - it does suggest in the end that the rose refers to the girl, and as such, that the beauty of the meaning from the title could be reduced to some melancholical love story...
(Spliff! It's really nice to meet you on this board!)(actually I keep bumping into your name, I remember having seen you on the Screamers or Blood of Heroes boards, for instance )
Words, Mr. Sullivan, are precious things. And they are not to be tempered with!
That's one of the reasons why I got a little mad at the film - it does suggest in the end that the rose refers to the girl, and as such, that the beauty of the meaning from the title could be reduced to some melancholical love story...
It's true that having the movie end on that note could give the wrong impression by suggesting that the "rose" is the girl and nothing else. Still, to be fair, Adso does mention in the novel that he never learned her name.
And despite its apparently opposite meaning, I think it's actually a fair adaptation to the film medium of the novel's Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus. After everything else that's been lost -- the Aedificium library, all those marvelous and irreplaceable books, the lost second book of Aristotle's Poetics -- in this instance Adso doesn't have even an "empty name" to hold on to . . . Although it's not perfectly faithful to the novel, it's one of my favorite moments in the film. And I think it at least captures the bittersweet, wistful spirit of the book's final line.
Spliff! It's really nice to meet you on this board!
Good to see you here too.
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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
To be fair and , I have neither read the novel, nor watched the movie in a long while now. I loved the novel so much when I was younger, that I'm afraid it will disappoint me now. Well, I will end up rereading it, one day...
As to meanings & meanings - I didn't think that the two interpretations of the final phrase were opposed, just that the movie's was kind of diminishing the book's meaning. I remember the disappointment I felt. The way I remember it now (heavily filtered and interpreted), the book talks about a general meaninglessness, or purposelessness of the world, over which we are trying to project our own constructions, deductions, into which we are trying to infuse some sense, which sense, therefore, is bound to be heavily imperfect and, ultimately, to fail. Which is why the things (facts, people, places, thoughts, feelings) don't leave anything of significance behind them - lack of meaning leads to lack of interconnection between things, which leads to the loss of the trails they might leave behind. We give ourselves the illusion that we can hold something by holding its name, by trying to save it from decay and forgetfulness, when in fact the only thing that we've been holding on to was the bare name itself, with any trace of its original reference lost forever. Now of course that this whole ...thing ought to be adapted to the context in which the things that had been lost were composed themselves of words (aka books)... Ugh I'm lost . Anyway, compared to that whole thing, the interpretation in the movie does take a shortcut (but then, it was a movie, bound to fit in 2 hours, bound to use more images and less words than a book, so...). Enough of this though, I'm starting to feel too guilty for not remembering it well anymore (that above was mostly a bluff ). It's turning slowly into a bunch of nomina purely nuda. Gotta reread it.
On a side note, gosh it's nice to see the nomina nuda phrase again - not to remember it, but to actually see it written. There was a time when I was ending every single essay with it, no matter what the essay was about. Have you read Eco's The Island of the Day Before? It's the last of his novels that I read, about 2 years ago, during the week I spent in an Orthodox nunnery. I guess I ought to go back there and reread The Name of the Rose (even it was difficult enough to explain once to the nuns what precisely I was doing there, since I wasn't attending the liturgy, or doing the other stuff people are supposed to do when they go to the monastery / nunnery; I kinda doubt that I'd manage to pull that for a second time).
Words, Mr. Sullivan, are precious things. And they are not to be tempered with!
Anyway, compared to that whole thing, the interpretation in the movie does take a shortcut (but then, it was a movie, bound to fit in 2 hours, bound to use more images and less words than a book, so...).
Well, that's it, I think -- the movie can't possibly capture the entire book. That's hard enough with novels less dense than this one. The film took some great liberties with the book and that's to be expected. But I think it works very well in its own right -- it's one of my favorite movies even though it's not a perfectly faithful adaptation. (And I had read the book well before seeing the movie.) So I don't really mind the shortcut.
Have you read Eco's The Island of the Day Before?
No -- is it good? The only other Eco novel I've read is Foucault's Pendulum, and that's been a while.
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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
The Island of the Day Before
I found it wonderful. Strange, full of stuff-within-stuff (stories within stories, symbols within symbols), a lot more metaphorical than Name of the Rose, but just as interesting and playful. Radiating a rather strong feeling of isolation - but then it fitted perfectly with my own self-imposed confinement at the moment (actually, I was supposed to work on an entirely different thing, and ended up reading the novel, which I had um, entirely accidentally, taken with me).
I have also read the Pendulum, a long time ago, but I didn't understand much from it, so don't remember more than a few scenes.
Words, Mr. Sullivan, are precious things. And they are not to be tempered with!
I found it wonderful.
That sounds like a recommendation. Thanks!
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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
I stumbled upon this thread today. Since the last post was several months ago I don't know if anybody is still interested in my two cents, but here we go.
There's more to it than the wikipedia entry states. The beauty of the novel is that it can be read on many different levels. The edition I bought in Italy has, as an appendix, a brief (about 30 pages) essay written by Eco in which he talks about the similarities between crime fiction, specifically the whodunit subgenre, and philosophical "investigation". Eco states that any author, alas, has to give away two clues: the title of the book, which is at one time revealing and limiting, and how many pages are (approximately) left before the end, which means you know to an extent if a certain solution or twist or surprise is going to be "final" or not just by feeling how thick the "still to read" part of the book is. He does NOT say - but the clever reader should, I think, notice - that he tried to overcome both those limitations in "the name of the rose". The essay itself makes the end of the book come sooner than expected, that is if the reader "plays fair" and doesn't peek ahead discovering that the final pages are not part of the novel before reaching them. More to the point of this thread, Eco tried to find a title that was as neutral as possible. This is quoted in the wikipedia entry, but I would take it one step further. Maybe I am trying to superimpose my personal order on what was really just randomness, but I don't buy in the story that Eco just had the title voted by his friends.
The key is of course the "Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus" line. However, Adso states previously that what he has written has no meaning, just like the rose of which only the name remains (I think, but maybe I remember wrongly, he also compares the pages to petals). Remember that in the fiction of Eco the novel is the transcription of the ancient manuscript written by Adso himself. So what has been revealed to have no meaning is, finally, the novel itself. Thus name = title, rose = novel, and the title "the name of the rose" translates to just...
"the title of this book"!