MovieChat Forums > The Karate Kid Part II (1986) Discussion > Mr. Miyagi, what a great hero!!??

Mr. Miyagi, what a great hero!!??

posted 13 years ago by thenix
27 replies | jump to latest

Let's see what do we know about this guy. As a youth, he steals his best friends future wife (probably defiled her), then leaves her to bear the shame and a life of loneliness. He maliciously and mercilessly beats up a bunch of high school kids. He encourages Daniel to break the law (driving without a license). He paints Daniel in a corner, forcing him to fight for his life in the tournament (Hey, Miyagi ever heard of the police or the justice system). Then he makes Daniel his indentured servant so he will fix up his crappy, dilapidated house under the guise of "karate". He could have easily stated do these motions to learn some karate, but no he wanted free labor. He steals someone's black belt from their bag. This was not only theft, but he caused some poor young kid to miss fulfilling his dream to compete in the tourney. Miyagi was a violent, thieving, manipulative scofflaw. He used and abused those around him and would stop at nothing to get what he wanted. He was such an egomaniac that he made Daniel fight under the Miyagi-Do-Karate name. Kreese didn't even name his dojo after himself. Miyagi was deplorable.

2 things. 1.) That is your opinion. 2.) You are wrong.

[–] TachoX2 13 years ago

How about Miyagi's relationship with his family?

He flies back to Okinawa upon hearing his Dad's finally checking out. Strangely enough, not once does he talk to his father! Instead he glares at him with burning hatred showing not the slightest bit of concern only thinking of whatever he can inherit then skip town once again.

Why isn't Miyagi inquiring about a doctor's diagnosis, prescription pain relievers, or anything that a normal person would want to know or ease the suffering of a loved one? Heartless bastard.

Don't even get me started on abusing the lovely Yukie again...

[–] creatorof2002 12 years ago

The OP of this thread forgot to mention that in the first movie he gave the kid ALCOHOL, provided ALCOHOL for a minor and he himself drives with NO LICENSE, you said he LET DANIEL DRIVE without one which is true but he himself admitted he has no license. And in the next karate kid its implied that he got to see Hillary Swank naked and her character was under 18 (I think the actress was 20).

[–] Sam_Hain 12 years ago

He flies back to Okinawa upon hearing his Dad's finally checking out. Strangely enough, not once does he talk to his father! Instead he glares at him with burning hatred showing not the slightest bit of concern only thinking of whatever he can inherit then skip town once again.

He cared so much about his father that he didn't even realize he was still alive until he received the telegram.

I'm guessing the authentic bonsai tree we see in KKIII he stole from his father when he fled from Okinawa like a coward.

[–] kellymariekitty 9 years ago

Aaaaaaargh jesus, he doesnt stare at him glaring, hes hurt & in shock his father is dying.

[–] wears-alan 12 years ago

Miyagi-Do means Miyagis way you f_ucking clown shoe, not Dojo!!!

You are entitled to my opinion, whether you want it or not!!

[–] lakewoodmatt67 12 years ago

You're right, Miyagi is such a slave driver that he even manipulates Daniel's mom into letting Daniel stay with him and not going to Fresno, all so he can get a damned addition to his house built for free!

And look how little he thinks of Daniel's nice gift of a medal case that Daniel made with his own hands: "This (patting his chest, indicating his heart) say yo brave... this (indicating his medal of valor) say you lucky..."

Wow, I'm sure every war veteran who acquired a medal of valor for their service appreciated hearing that the only reason they were decorated was because they were lucky schmucks, and not because they had courage and honor!

(You do realize I'm being smarmy and snarky, and don't really mean any of these comeents, I hope...)

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

Even worse. Like a true fascist, he wants to build personality cult, hence Miyagi Way. There's no Cobra Kai Way or Kreese Way. There's way of the fist that existed for centuries just like the way of the sword and the way of the warrior. But Miyagi wants to be worshipped like a God so he made Daniel totally depend on him.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

Cobra kai IS John Kreese's karate do. HIS way. He is moulding people in HIS way.

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

He doesn't call it his way, and his methods are devised by US Army, not by some loser family of drunk fishermen who think they are samurai equivalent but sans sword.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

No Ben. Even Silver says Cobra Kai IS John Kreeses karate. These 'loser' fisherman use Karate to find balance in their lives. It may sound hokey to you and I, but that is their culture. The Karate that is taught in the US army is not the same as what Kreese teaches, though some of Kreeses methods are influenced by what he learned in the army.

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

Silver can say it's his karate but it isn't explicitly named Kreese's Way. Daniel fought under the Miyagi Way banner. I honestly don't understand how you cannot see the difference. Cobra Kai is way more neutral name than totally egomaniacal and cultish Miyagi Way. Cobra Kai is in line with other schools such as Locust (Daryl Vidal's school). None of them calls itself Sensei ____ Way.

As for finding balance in their lives, I fail to see balance in being drunk and inability to let go off past. Miyagi with his drunk anniversary role play, general lack of friends, hoarding old cars, etc and Sato with his 45 years old grudge that drives him to make everyone around him miserable are two examples of how Miyagi Way is not the way of finding balance in life. Both thought by the same guy from Miyagi Way lineage. None of them balanced. And then Daniel San receives the same teaching and ends up a weird loser. Kreese isn't balanced character either but he's no worse off with his karate than those disbalanced Okinawans are with Miyagi Way. That's a fact. That's all in these 3 movies.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

Well, Miyagi-Do Karate is named,not after Kesuke Miyagi, but after the Miyagi family name.

Most people tend to give their karate club a name which reflects their style and mindset. My club is named Kyokutan.

As for drunk and unable to let go of the past, are you saying this is the case for all those fishermen? Plus, Miyagis karate (and Sato) helps him to deal with those problems, even if they don't completely eradicate them. Seeing as you mention it though, what about Kreese? His training from both Karate and the military should have helped him cope, yet he becomes a drinker and gives up all hope. Whatever happened to Cobra kai, never dies? He's no worse off than Miyagi? I beg to differ. he is so consumed with what happened that he approves of what Silver intends to do and even says 'Make his knuckles bleed'!

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

Doesn't that prove they are the same? Neither can cope. My point is, while stupid movies scream "Kreese's karate sucks cause he can't cope with his problems" it also screams "Miyagi karate rocks cause he can't cope with his problems... oh wait!". The bottom line is, Kreese or Miyagi Way, neither can cope with his problems because they are not something karate can fix. It's seriously the dumbest, most irresponsible message I've seen in movies - that karate can help with psychological disorders even though what's on the screen clearly shows the opposite. Kreese, Miyagi and Sato needed a shrink. Nothing wrong with that. But trying to play Tom Cruise and pimp alternative to medicine where alternative can't do the trick is preposterous.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

Not quite sure where you are going with this ben?

You started by saying:
Even worse. Like a true fascist, he wants to build personality cult, hence Miyagi Way. There's no Cobra Kai Way or Kreese Way. There's way of the fist that existed for centuries just like the way of the sword and the way of the warrior. But Miyagi wants to be worshipped like a God so he made Daniel totally depend on him.

Then you went on to say:
As for finding balance in their lives, I fail to see balance in being drunk and inability to let go off past. Miyagi with his drunk anniversary role play, general lack of friends, hoarding old cars, etc and Sato with his 45 years old grudge that drives him to make everyone around him miserable are two examples of how Miyagi Way is not the way of finding balance in life. Both thought by the same guy from Miyagi Way lineage. None of them balanced. And then Daniel San receives the same teaching and ends up a weird loser. Kreese isn't balanced character either but he's no worse off with his karate than those disbalanced Okinawans are with Miyagi Way. That's a fact. That's all in these 3 movies

Now you are saying these movies are saying Kreeses karate sucks 'cos he can't cope with his problems and screams Miyagis karate rocks 'cos he also can't cope with his problems.

I don't see that at all. The message I see is bullying is wrong. I'm sure that was the intention initially, but it descended into what it did through the sequels.

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

First movie was about dealing with bullying (by injecting the message that only alpha male-ness can beat alpha male-ness) but they also had that rambling about balance in life. So you can't say the movie didn't try to enforce the message that Miyagi Way brings balance in life. It did. It's just that it wasn't shown on the screen since Miyagi had no balance in his life. So, at the end of KK, we are supposed to believe that Daniel found his. he won, got the girl, Johnny's kissing his ass, you name it. So far so good. Even though the teacher had no balance so it's really dubious he could teach his student something he himself couldn't learn. Then came the sequels and Daniel found himself without balance and making one dumb decision after another. No wonder. But this time around, bullying wasn't as big theme as was all metaphysical crap - balance, letting go, etc. And that's where everything went down the toilet because Miyagi karate-fixes-all-problems bullsh!t was exposed as bullsh!t.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

Karate itself was and is about balance whether or not it is Miyagis karate or any other karate you care to mention. Trust me on this.

It brought balance for Daniel in that the little guy got to compete with his bigger antagonist on an even setting. Daniel was not an alpha-male at any time in these movies.

Miyagi had balance. Yes once a year it slipped, but over all he had managed to cope with his loss. His life was lacking something that Karate in this case only managed to partially compensate for. Somebody to pass his knowledge to.

Actually since he (Miyagi) had little to do with Daniels training til the end of part 3, I would say that you are wrong. Miyagi told Daniel what to do in the final, and after finally listening Daniel focussed and won, so in this case it wasn't BS, it worked.

Kreeses karate was by no means sh!t and I find it hard to imagine anybody watching the Cobra Kai competing in the first movie would think so.

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

Sorry but we don't see things the same way. IMO, if you are friendless, lazy drunk super who neglects his tenants needs, hoards old cars like Hoarders, is advising his student to be a loser (he should have been more firm about college money), that's not balance. If your student dumps college for sh!tty dead end business and ends up without friends of his age, that's not balance. maybe from backwards fisherman's POV that's balance but it isn't from 20th and 21st century educated person's POV.

Also, karate can't cure mental disorder. I find it interesting that Kreese tried to stave off his PTSD by staying close to violence (karate) but in controlled environment. It's something that quite a few vets tried and at least in 2 cases it had grave consequences. One Vietnam vet sensei beat up his student to death back in 80s, around time KK came out. And then there was Chris Kyle. He opened a shooting range in hope to help Iraq and Afganistan vets cope with their PTSD. It worked until the day a 25 years old vet with PTSD shot Kyle and his friend. Kyle was known as American Sniper with the most confirmed kills. truly tragic end. RIP.

My point is that they went overboard with what karate can do and ended up looking stupid because in the context of the movies it seemed as if Daniel became a loser in life because he followed Miyagi Way.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

WE? Always thought you had your own opinions Ben!

Drunk? So him getting drunk once a year on the anniversary of his wife and childs death qualifies him as a drunk.

I know you might call him a hoarder,but others would call him a collector of old cars.

Was he (Daniel) a bad kid? No. Was he happy to just work in a Bonsai store? Yes. Seems pretty balanced to me. He isn't in part 4 so it would be fair to assume he moved on with his life, most likely with someone his own age. Logic alone should tell us that.

Nobody says it can cure mental disorder. As for going overboard with what Karate can and can't do, watch a Bruce Lee movie and tell me they didn't go overboard with these things. Nunchuks were banned in this country because of Enter the Dragon because some idiot censor believed a novice could do what Lee did. Hell, Lee couldn't even do it himself to that effect. Watch Rocky and tell me it didn't have the message that if you tried hard enough you too could take on the world.

It's a movie pure and simple. I think most people get that.

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

Yeah, I totally don't get it's a movie. OK, whatever. If you think it's a good thing to go "hey, kids, look how happy and balanced Daniel is - fat, no college, working for free in a business without customers, living with a creepy old dude who likes to wear wife-beater around him a lot" fine. I disagree but that's what discussion forums are for - discussion. There isn't one if everyone agrees about everything.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

No, but I do think it's a good thing for a movie to show a bullied kid who is a misfit to learn that karate isn't just about fighting. OTOH, I don't think it's good for a movie series to demonize Vietnam Vets.

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] jefgg 11 years ago

Miyagi was a conman.

[–] fourpointstars 11 years ago

Very few of us think he was a hero. You can find a full list of Danielle and Miyagay's crimes on Youtube.

[–] PreachCaleb 11 years ago

Actually, very few of you think he wasn't a hero. Most do.

Straightedge means I'm better than you.

[–] nutsberryfarm 10 years ago

he makes some refreshing iced tea.

The circulation of confidence is better than the circulation of money.-James Madison

[–] jefgg 9 years ago

Daniel was the real bully. Please click on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Gz_iTuRMM

[–] billsmusic1977 9 years ago

To the original poster......you are an *beep* That is all.

[–] kellymariekitty 9 years ago

Hahaha oh my god - unbelievable!!

Firstly, the love of his love has been told she has to marry a guy she doesnt like, despite the fact she loves Mr. Miyagi but because its not permitted she isnt allowed to marry miyagi. So naturally he leaves the village because it would hurt to see his love marry somebody else. He beats up a bunch of school BULLIES, BULLIES by the way, because they are beating the crap out of Daniel every day making his life hell. The police dont do anything about bullies hence lots of school kids comiting suicide because nothing gets done lawfully.
He makes daniel work so he can learn karati techniques, hence making him better at defence & sticking up for himself.

He takes the black belt-hmm yes ok but the other kid wont lose his dream,im sure he could have said his belt has disappeared, and finally Miyagi didnt tell Daniel to fight under his dojo, Daniel came up with that name himself because you need to tell the referees which school your from or who your teacher is.

Unbelievable, next thing you be saying is Johnny was just a kid that was slightly misunderstood & not a complete & under THUG!!!!

Bullies are the scum of the earth & they deserve to have the *beep* kicked out of them, anybody that bullies & makes anothers persons life intolerable deserves to be killed!!!