MovieChat Forums > The Karate Kid Part II (1986) Discussion > Chad McQueen/Dutch - What happened to Jo...

Chad McQueen/Dutch - What happened to Johnny and the gang afterwards?

posted 11 years ago by gez26
38 replies | jump to latest

I always thought the beginning scene in KK2 was stock footage, but apparently it wasn't and they actually brought back Martin Kove and company to shoot the parking lot scene. Anyway, it almost seemed pointless to bring back McQueen since they concealed his face with a ball cap and had him standing behind a car. Also, if you watch closely he starts laughing and turns away from the action between Kreese and Johnny. It looks a little out of place, but it's sort of interesting at the same time. I guess he had gained weight or changed his look quite a bit in the two years between so they had to mostly hide him.

I know it's been mentioned on these boards already, but what a shame that they didn't go in a different direction with the sequels and continued with the Cobra Kai's story. I thought Johnny and Dutch and the rest of the Kai had so much more charisma and an onscreen presence that was lacking with Daniel's character. What do you think happened to Johnny and gang after the tournament? Remained bullies? Or completely changed their ways? I can see Johnny becoming an even better fighter after being humbled by Daniel, possibly becoming a national champion or something like that. I still think he had the tools to be the better of all the fighters in the KK films if he had the proper training.

"Skeletor to King Randor... come in, you royal boob"

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

Agree.

Daniels story was finished. If anything, the cameo should have been from Daniel and Miyagi for the parking lot scene. Afterwards, it could have jumped forwards a year and dealt with Johnny and co, who still had a story to tell.

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

Parking lot scene should have never happened, at least not in the way it played out. It ruined the series because it was pandering to masses over actually developing characters and telling a good story. We've discussed it before.

Agreed with OP that Kai should have been the focus of sequel(s). But that would have required a darker story, especially if they also went into Kreese's PTSD and Vietnam background which, IMO, were important subject matters that required respectful attention. It would have brought something new to the Nam-themed movies table, since most movies were from soldier's POV, not from next gen's one or how it affected the next gen.

Moreover, since Kai were a teen militia of sorts - their training clearly enabled them - that would have resonated with this generation (aka stood the test of time) more than sugarcoated Daniel/Miyagi escapades that made Daniel look like a total loser (no friends his age, no girlfriend, no college). Considering that subgenre is all the rage now (Hunger Games, Battle Royale, Kick Ass, Divergent, Ender's Game, Game of Throne's Arya, etc), Kai movie(s) would have been forbearers.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

We have discussed the parking lot scene before, but my thought was that the only purpose it could have served in telling the Kai story was as a way of them breaking away from Kreese as per the OP's suggestion and as a cameo for Daniel and Miyagi.

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] gez26 11 years ago

Yeah, I think perhaps they wanted Kreese to be viewed as the lone villain, and the kids he was teaching as brainwashed victims. Which was pretty obvious in the first film, but many moviegoers need to be spoon-fed outcomes and such. It was a rushed scene for sure, but for some people it probably tied everything up in a bow and allowed them to move on to the next story.

Excellent points and ideas, though. I agree that the franchise would have required taking a much darker turn had they done a violent PTSD type story. But they were meant to be family films, so it would have been a tough sell with the producers, especially after the success of the original.

"Skeletor to King Randor... come in, you royal boob"

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

Harry Potter books and movies are more family oriented and they have more dark sh!t than many adult-oriented fiction and movies. Point being, writer, director and studio underestimated young audience. If they could take stuff like Bambi mother's death, Luke losing his hand, finding out his father was the big bad, and carbonized Han, they can certainly take serious and respectful handling of PTSD. Especially since many kids and teens in the 80s had someone in the family who served in Vietnam. More's the pity that these movies missed an opportunity to help youngsters understand those vets. Such as, instead of Kai turning away, have them interested in understanding what happened to their sensei who was their age when he was in real war and crossed the line they didn't (killed people).

Rather than dismissing Kreese as evil, which he was not, they should have acknowledged that he was damaged by his war experience and unintentionally began to damage his students. You see, for character to be evil, there must be an evil intent and his training didn't have an evil intent. He merely reproduced his Army training, albeit a sanitized version: no expletives, no physical abuse - 60 push-ups does not fall into abuse category no matter what spin the movie put on it, he identified an enemy in the school's motto as " a man who confronts you" meaning a confrontational adult male, not a woman or child or innocent bystander of any gender and age (which is different from Army drills that lumped enemy in several racial slurs that applied to entire population, all genders and ages). So considering that he used respectable organization's model of MA training (it wasn't his eeevil invention) and even filtered out the motivational speech to apply only to adult males who instigate conflict (as opposed to anyone), we can safely say that he had no evil intention to create an army of evil paramilitaries in canon and therefore cannot be considered evil. Whatever happened from tournament onwards was obviously some sort of breakdown that made him lose control over his actions. For example, Miyagi was Asian when he came to the dojo but Kreese never used a slur. So slur from parking lot was obviously something that came with the breakdown rather than being his regular catch phrase (unlike racists from the beach who called Miyagi a pet N!p while in state of relaxation and very light intoxication).

[–] kevinchengxin 10 years ago

In the 80s, movies didn't go there yet with villain's psychology. Things were simpler and more naive. It's part of the charm of old movies. But perhaps we should appreciate today's films for this as well, considering the studios are actually trying very hard to bring us complicated characters and smart stories, even though they're adapted from comics and toys.

[–] MysticInvestigations 11 years ago

Since I assume all their parents were rich they probably went to college, and had professional careers. Perhaps at least one of them went on to have a professional tournament career, and went up against karate's bad boy Mike Barnes but lost. Some of them might have quit karate due to the Kreese parking lot incident while others might have joined some other dojo to continue training. In the Karate Kid book that came out with the movie in the 80's it said they wanted to train under Miyagi but of course that never happened since he's really stingy teaching karate to others. Heck he clearly held back the good stuff from Danny.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

Lost to bad boy Barnes. Hahahahaha! You are funny.

Miyagi wasn't stingy. He was going to follow family tradition in training only his own child, unfortunately the child died. As such Miyagi was never going to teach anyone, that is until he met Daniel.

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

But because his father wasn't a man of his word, he didn't teach just one did he?

But I think we agree that Kai would never want to train with Miyagi. It just doesn't make any sense. They were almost 18 and practically done with junior karate anyway. I doubt that they went on tournaments under a different banner. College then taking over family business.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] wears-alan 10 years ago

Is that based on your vast experience of streetfighting in Glasgows roughest areas? Or just an uneducated guess Callum?

It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] wears-alan 10 years ago

Johnny made the mistake of rushing Daniel. Barnes had all the time in the world and still got flipped like a pancake. A move that Daniel executed earlier on him in Miyagis garden. Face it, bitch boy Barnes was a thug. No more and no less.

It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] wears-alan 10 years ago

Ah yes, but in the garden scene Daniel didn't get the chance to follow it up. In the competition he did and scored the point. He was bound by the rules to make light contact. Outside the ring though, he would have employed a technique favoured in your neck of the woods and 'stamped on his heid'.
Game over.

It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] wears-alan 10 years ago

But he does in the final.

It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] wears-alan 10 years ago

Not if Daniel 'Stamped on his heid'.

It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!

[–] Ploopy 11 years ago

I always thought the beginning scene in KK2 was stock footage, but apparently it wasn't and they actually brought back Martin Kove and company to shoot the parking lot scene.

Actually, it was filmed for the first movie, but then it cut from that movie, and added to the beginning of the second film.

I remember I had the novelization of the first movie when I was a kid, and the book ended with the parking lot scene, so apparently they wrote the book before they decided to cut the scene from the film.

[–] wears-alan 11 years ago

No, it was planned as the original ending but was never filmed. The guys returned for that scene, that's why Ali isn't there. She (Elisabeth Shue) didn't return.

Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] benosheabutter 11 years ago

Dutch was far from a psychopath. He knew that intimidating posturing was half the work done. So he postured. He never did anything more on psycho side than other Kai. They were all fairly OTT to preserve don't-mess-up-with-me image.

Also, if he was likely to follow in Kreese's footsteps, how come Kreese lost all students? Something doesn't compute. Oh, wait, could it be because sequels were really Daniel's hallucination caused by kicks in the head? That's the only logical explanation why they didn't make any sense at all. They weren't events after KK but creation of his brain concussion.

[–] nashawn187 10 years ago

What do you think happened to Johnny and gang after the tournament? Remained bullies?

Good question.

As high school seniors, once the momentary disappointment of losing the All-Valley wore off, Johnny and his friends probably went back to focusing on their academic endeavours as high school seniors, working tirelessly to graduate and awaiting their acceptances to colleges.

Fast forward a year later, and while Daniel was still kicking it in the slums working at a seedy, unsuccessful store selling Bonsai trees, you would have found Johnny, Bobby Brown, Dutch, Tommy, et al. all finishing their freshmen years at various different colleges.

That Daniel was still competing in high school Karate tournaments a year later, would have no doubt been a source of amusement to the gang, who by that point had all moved on to bigger and greater things with their lives.

[–] marktko 10 years ago

This old favourite tells you what happened to them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3iYmgDJ4FE

[–] EffOne 10 years ago

That's actually Dutch in the baseball cap in the carpark scene?

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[–] bond322 10 years ago

Do you know, I don't think that is him, just some bad lookalike that stepped in because Chad maybe didn't want to be involved in a sequel ?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] McQueen1980 9 years ago

that gang kreese and co should have followed daniel to japan

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] wears-alan 9 years ago

Another problem with that scenario. The 'gang' left the Cobra Kai dojo.

It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] mail-924 9 years ago

Johnny was the real hero. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXaittoXJog

Cardboard Box is the Future.

[–] Airjordan2288 9 years ago

I remember in the original script for KK2, after Miyagi punks Kreese the line read.

Each one of the Kobra Kai dropped their black belts on the bloodied Sensei...something cheesy like that

and technically this scene was the true ending of KK1 that was never filmed in KK1

"When the *beep* did we get ice cream?!"