MovieChat Forums > Aliens (1986) Discussion > Just wondering if anyone else ever got a...

Just wondering if anyone else ever got a Vietnam War vibe about

posted 8 years ago by boatlandmore
14 replies | jump to latest

certain things? The Colonial Marines all seem to have the Vietnam style black marker art on their helmets, the corrupt company officials seem to reflect the ineptitude of the US governement in planning & carrying out combat operations in Vietnam, Gorman seemed to represent misguided military leadership, the Aliens seem to represent the Vietcong, things like that. If not a direct reflection, than maybe at least the mindset of mistrust after the war was over. Just wondering if anyone else drew parallel lines with the some of the themes.

[–] ck100 8 years ago

I know Cameron had said he wrote the film with a "Vietnam War" mentality when it came to the marines. But the war had been still somewhat fresh on people's minds at the time the movie was written.

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

A LOT was informed by Cameron's perspective of Vietnam, yes. He's been very open and detailed about it.

For example, there's a lot 'bigging up' the Colonial Marines:
Frost wears a t-shirt that says, "Peace Through Superior Firepower" and in the Special Edition Hudson has a speech about how he's the "Ultimate Badass" because of all the weaponry he has, which he reels off in proud detail.
Burke even describes them as "pretty tough homres, they're packing state-of-the-art firepower, there's nothing they can't handle".

This is all meant to reflect the approach the US forces had in tackling the NVA and VC, only to find that their 'superior firepower' was not as effective against the enemy's guerilla warfare, which is also mirrored by how the squad gets utterly müllered by the Aliens' hiding and surprise-attacking.

Interestingly, bigging up something like the Colonial Marine Corps so much, only to see them fail dysmally and sink is similar to how they bigged up the Titanic as "unsinkable", which then sank dramatically on its maiden voyage... and therein are two films both by James Cameron.
However, it's a pretty tenuous link of almost no significance in the real world and more the sort of thing certain previous posters might have come up with!! 

[–] sevenlilxenos 8 years ago

Then you got JC'c Avatard where the cartoonish Na'vi ride magic dragons and take out Col. Quaritch and his well armed marines with their primitive bows and arrows .

Remember the Ewok Teddy Bears of Endor beating the Empire in Star Wars ROTJ?

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

Well, the Smurfs did have quite a bit of help from a few traitors and their stolen technology, including a helicopter pilot who suddenly started killing her own people... That and a few lucky shots.

[–] the_bamboo_spear 8 years ago

Well that's a popular misconception about the actual war itself. The American military machine was more than capable, and pretty much smoked the NVA and VC at every encounter. The fault was with the American politicians that, like Barnes said in Platoon, "Tried to fight the war with one hand tied around their balls".

If they treated it like a total war rather than a police action, they could have invaded the North and bombed Hanoi into rubble. It would be like trying to win WW2 but stopping at Hawaii, drawing a line, and only engaging the Japanese that crossed that line. It could have continued indefinitely.

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

Well that's a popular misconception about the actual war itself. The American military machine was more than capable, and pretty much smoked the NVA and VC at every encounter.

That's not quite the picture I got whenever I've spoken with the veterans about it (and I've spoken with a fair few, over the decades), or read their memoirs.
Many have said that Hamburger Hill is the most accurate portrayal they've seen, of both the more professional career-like soldiers and the later draftees, as well as common engagements and campaigns.

Certainly the soldiers (in general) were a lot more professional in their conduct than the media portrays (the latter of which is more what informed Cameron's perspective), but many were limited in experience and it cost them a lot more to achieve any victory than it would a properly capable war machine.

[–] the_bamboo_spear 8 years ago

I'm sure it felt that way if you were on Hamburger Hill (my dad is a Vietnam Vet and also agrees that it was a much better portrayal than Platoon or Full Metal Jacket). Whether it's 3 guys shooting at you or an entire regiment, it's probably still pretty scary.

But the means to defeat the North Vietnamese was always there, it was just not allowed, politically. It's not like WW2, where getting to Japan and Germany, invading and winning was not guaranteed. It was a true war. Japan and Germany could, if not checked, conquer the world.

The VC and NVA never posed that threat. A few strategically-placed neutron bombs could have ended the war, but trying to fight an opponent with rules, when they are fighting without rules, is difficult. Technology and firepower was never the issue in Vietnam.

And our opponents weren't exactly Ewoks throwing spears and rocks. They had some pretty impressive anti-aircraft weapons at the time.

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

I'm sure it felt that way if you were on Hamburger Hill

I meant in terms of the attitudes, the slog, the discipline, the pointless objectives, lack of intel, difficulties against guerillas, etc. Not actually spoken to anyone from HH, that I recall, so it seems to be a fairly common experience throughout.

But the means to defeat the North Vietnamese was always there, it was just not allowed, politically.

Like taking off and nuking the entire site from orbit, really!

The VC and NVA never posed that threat.

Neither do the Aliens on LV-426. It's about the Marines surviving and making it back home safely.

Technology and firepower was never the issue in Vietnam.

It's existence, no... but it's availability, yes.
How about the bombing campaign, for example?
Bombing the heck out of everything was largely ineffective, according to Gen Westmoreland and CoS Johnson - So much for what should have been superior firepower there.

[–] the_bamboo_spear 8 years ago

Bombing jungle trails proved somewhat useless, but bombing Hanoi the way we bombed Tokyo? Completely different result.

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

Ah, well that changes everything, then...

[–] mobocracy 8 years ago

The NVA fought well and many individual American units took heavy casualties defending certain fire bases and remote outposts. But even when attacked and taking heavy casualties, the Americans almost always defeated their attackers, even against numeric imbalances, due to superior weapons and air support.

But the general failure was the lack of willingness by political leadership to engage in actual war fighting and advancement against the enemy. We had the men and material and ability to advance against the north on the ground and the air power to reduce all major population centers in the North to rubble, yet we never did due to political meddling.

After Tet, the failure of the existing "assistance" campaign should have been seen for what it was -- a failure, and the military should have begun a full-scale advance north with a defined front combined with a heavy strategic bombing campaign. "Linebacker II" showed what the applied force of B-52 carpet bombing was capable of and the Vietnamese could not have withstood a ground invasion and regular strategic bombing raids while remaining combat effective.

War IS hell, but you cannot win without total defeat, especially against a determined enemy, and total defeat means defeating the ability AND will of your opponent to fight, and achieving the latter often means savaging the civilian population, too.

[–] hafabee 8 years ago

I can see that somewhat, but I think that Robert Heinlein's novel "Starship Troopers" was the biggest influence on Aliens, aside from the original Alien movie of course. The premise is quite similar, although the stories explore different subtexts (Starship Troopers was about pure militarism, while Aliens was more about motherhood and corporate corruption).

[–] march18 8 years ago

Let's not forget that - even far-off in the future - the marines are wearing modified M1 helmets, the standard US Military headgear from WW2 until the mid-'80s

[–] the_bamboo_spear 8 years ago

Not to mention archaic shotguns and handguns. I actually bought an HK VP70 because of Aliens, I thought it was cool looking lol.

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