MovieChat Forums > Aliens (1986) Discussion > Gods, the whole 'don't use your weapons'...

Gods, the whole 'don't use your weapons' thing is SO annoying.

posted 8 years ago by TerraFirma69
20 replies | jump to latest

I'm sure this has been dredged over ad nauseum, but I'm watching this on TV for the first time in a few years. I remember it bugging (no pun intended) me no end. JUST FCKING TELL THEM WHY! It's not a fcking state secret, they're presumably adults who can digest information.

I get that Gorman is incompetent and the ill-disciplined smart-arsed marines aren't querying the no shooting order OR taking any notice of it, but Ripley is right there next to Gorman and she's hardly stupid, shy or mute. Same goes for Burke.

That and the fact the setup included Burke saying "nucular", the practice of which goes at my nerves like a cheese grater.

...then whoa, differences...

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

JUST FCKING TELL THEM WHY! It's not a fcking state secret, they're presumably adults who can digest information.

That's not how command works.
You shouldn't have to explain every little decision you make.
Gorman is by-the-book, so you don't question, you just do as told.

That and the fact the setup included Burke saying "nucular",

He does actually say "Noo-cle-arr". He just says it real quick and with what I assume is a New Jersey sort of accent.

[–] TerraFirma69 8 years ago

It's not 'every little decision' though. It's a major decision which could quite plainly mean the difference between life and death for them.

I think anyone, no matter how lowly, would be inclined to query a firm order not to use their primary weapon in an unfamiliar and potentially hostile environment. These guys have no problem mouthing off about everything else, but when given a conspicuously ominous order like that some of them at least are poorly disciplined enough to ignore it but not poorly disciplined enough to ask a simple one word question about it?

...then whoa, differences...

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

It's not 'every little decision' though. It's a major decision which could quite plainly mean the difference between life and death for them.

You're so right... They should have gone back to the APC, sat down over a cup of tea and discussed it just like proper Americans, perhaps even taking a vote on the next course of action, with proper American Democracy... they might even have had biscuits with the tea....

I think anyone, no matter how lowly, would be inclined to query a firm order not to use their primary weapon in an unfamiliar and potentially hostile environment.

Gorman specifically says, "Flame units ONLY", before adding, "and no grenades". That alone is explanation enough that something is up and he has more pressing matters than explaining himself to people who aren't supposed to question orders.

These guys have no problem mouthing off about everything else, but when given an ominous order like that they're poorly disciplined enough to ignore it but not poorly disciplined enough to ask a simple one word question about it?

No, not one word. Not one question. Not one remark.... certainly nothing like:

"Jeez..."
"What?"
"Is he fücking crazy?"
"What are we supposed to use, man, harsh language?"

Did you actually watch this film, or not?

[–] TerraFirma69 8 years ago

It's just a bit of speculative discussion about a movie. If you insist on turning it into you being a hostile sarcastic d#ckhead about it so you feel better about yourself, good day.

...then whoa, differences...

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

It's just a bit of speculative discussion about a movie. If you insist on turning it into you being a hostile sarcastic d#ckhead about it so you feel better about yourself, good day.

How can you speculate on a film you have not properly watched?
You're making comments about things not happening in the film, when they very clearly have, before basing your speculations on that supposed absence.
Your conclusions are therefore glaringly wrong... and you just don't like it.

You are ignorant of so many things, so go watch the film and see them before clogging up the board with flawed arguments... and take your uppity, ignorant attitude with you and come back when you can see how fücked up your assertions were.

My problem was with the issuing of the order without a simple explanation

That is how the military works - Orders get given and you are expected to follow them. You're also expected to have a competent commander, so orders shouldn't need to be questioned in the first place, but that's not conducive to a plot like this.
Also, from Gorman's perspective, he DOES explain it - He says, "We can't have any firing in there". That clearly implies a reason why we "can't", rather than "I don't want". There must be some danger and he doesn't have time to go into a thermonuclear dynamics class over the radio.

[–] TerraFirma69 8 years ago

Your 'arguments' are quite easily pulled to pieces, but to engage with someone who clearly attains their self worth from endless circular bickering on public internet forums is pointless. I say good day.

...then whoa, differences...

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

Your 'arguments' are quite easily pulled to pieces

Go on, then...

You argue that characters should have said and done things they quite clearly do, but you think you can pull that to pieces?
Go ahead - Prove me wrong. Rip apart my argument...

but to engage with someone who clearly attains their self worth from endless circular bickering on public internet forums is pointless. I say good day.

In other words, you're embarrassed by the flaws in your argument and having someone call you on them, but can't continue the argument so are chickening out of just admiting your errors and continuing the conversation...

You are wrong.
How that is all about me, I don't know... but you're still wrong.

[–] TerraFirma69 8 years ago

You might be taken seriously if everything you said in reply to a simple discussion about a movie wasn't tinged with personal slights and/or snide sarcasm. You give yourself away with these childish mannerisms. You're here to bicker, for whatever odd reason. Nothing more.

...then whoa, differences...

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

You might be taken seriously if everything you said in reply to a simple discussion about a movie wasn't tinged with personal slights and/or snide sarcasm.

It's not me that cares about being taken seriously - You got it wrong. Own it and deal with it.
As for snide sarcasm - I'm British. It's a requirement!

You're here to bicker, for whatever odd reason. Nothing more.

Ah, so you get it wrong and I'm the one bickering...??!!
No, this is your error, your problem. Address it instead of trying to put the blame on me.

[–] bluersun 8 years ago

"As for snide sarcasm - I'm British. It's a requirement!"

You alright if I steal that quote ttask? It might come in handy soon...! ;)

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

You alright if I steal that quote ttask? It might come in handy soon...! ;)

All yours...

[–] vilafire 8 years ago

What is wrong with you? Clearly the OP is correct. It wouldbe tsken a second and half to say "because you'll all blow up."

Good job on being the kind of person who turns everything into a freaking battle. Sheesh.

[–] ibrarules 8 years ago

What is wrong with you? Clearly the OP is correct. It wouldbe tsken a second and half to say "because you'll all blow up."

I agree. But my brief experience from the army in my country, and from what I've seen and read about other nations' armed forces, they condition grunts into following orders blindly and NOT asking questions - to keep formation/disciplin/speed etc.

So no I never found "lack of questions from grunts" weird or strange at all in this movie or any other.

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

It wouldbe tsken a second and half to say "because you'll all blow up."

Followed by each of the Marines asking for more information, arguing why they wouldn't, how they'd be careful, how the rounds wouldn't penetrate the processor, Gorman arguing back and the whole thing descends into an internet forum argument over the radio.

That is why you don't question things, because people who do delay everything and the people you're there to rescue end up dead, while the enemy overruns your position in the middle of your argument.
It's the chain of command, not the chain of polite and thoughtful debate.

[–] sati_84 8 years ago

Great explanation, one of the best ones I have read on IMDb, ever!

I was looking back to see if you were looking back at me to see me looking back at you

[–] the_bamboo_spear 8 years ago

Even with their pulse rifles, they might not have fared any better. They had poor intelligence and didn't understand how the Xenos slept, moved and attacked. They had poor lighting and were either bunched up or thinned out. They lost their leader and panicked. If they all had a pulse rifle, more of them would probably have died from friendly fire.

Crowe would have still been ambushed, Frost would have still died, Wierzbowski and Drake might or might not have lived, Apone would have still been ambushed, etc.

Ironically, if they'd kept their heads and listened to Gorman's instructions, they might have won the engagement (make walls of fire and fall back to the APC - they could have torched the whole nest and killed a majority of them).

[–] TerraFirma69 8 years ago

Yeah I get that, no question the outcome may well have been better had they dispensed with the pulse rifles.

My problem was with the issuing of the order without anyone proffering a simple explanation and the acceptance (or otherwise as it happened) of it without a very simple and sensible query from anyone in the field (including the Sargent or the plainly calm and switched on corporal).

...then whoa, differences...

[–] sati_84 8 years ago

But that was the exact point of the scene. Poor communication kills. It would not have made so much difference if they knew why they should not use pulse rifles. But it created tension in the scene that they did not even have that information.

And things don't work like that in the military, you can't really ask "why", you are supposed to follow orders and that's that.

I was looking back to see if you were looking back at me to see me looking back at you

[–] sevenlilxenos 8 years ago

How many combat drops?

Ah 2, including this one.

[–] ttaskmaster 8 years ago

It would not have made so much difference if they knew why they should not use pulse rifles.

But Gorman did not trust them to hold their fire or shoulder arms...

And things don't work like that in the military, you can't really ask "why", you are supposed to follow orders and that's that.

...and they did not trust Gorman enough to make decisions that don't need questioning.
Generally you shouldn't need to question orders anyway, as they should make sense for the most part.