MovieChat Forums > Year of the Dragon (1985) Discussion > 'To Live And Die In L.A'. and 'The Year ...

'To Live And Die In L.A'. and 'The Year Of The Dragon'


Both were made in 1985.

Both have similar tag lines:

To Live And Die In L.A. - A federal agent is dead. A killer is loose. And the City of Angels is about to explode

The Year Of The Dragon - It isn't the Bronx or Brooklyn. It isn't even New York. It's Chinatown...and it's about to explode

Both Cop thrillers with a tough unhinged protagonist (Richard Chance, Stanley White)

Both done by iconic directors who made their mark in the 70's--William Friedkin (The French Connection/The Exorcist) and Miachel Cimino (The Deer Hunter) both after some notorious films--Friedkin (Cruising) and Cimino (Heaven's Gate) which were both released in the same year (1980).

Uncanny huh?

Last, both are underrated.

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Yeah I noticed the irony in both films and how they are pretty similar.

I would give the edge to, To Live and Die in L.A, L.A is a great place to set a corrupt police thriller and the car chase is amazing.

Two Greatest things in Life - Never rat on your friends and always keep your mouth shut

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I liked the chase in 'French Connection' more, but I guess the one 'To Live And Die In L.A.' might have been most technically difficult one--albeit more confusing too. Both great movie though.

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The music is part of what made To Live And Die great, so shut up kid. It had a lot of typical mid 80's beats, something you hardly heard in Dragon, except for in that night club.

I thought Rourke's performance in Dragon was better then Peterson's in To Live And Die. Though Peterson was more of a heartless SOB then Rourke. Rourke got too much stick from others in Dragon. Sometimes I wish I could've just told his wife, that Chinese reporter, or Herbert the Chinese cop just to shut the f up.

Also, the antagonist in To Live And Die - Willem Defoe - was better than John Lone in Dragon I thought.

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Yeah, Mickey Rourke is definitely better in Year of the Dragon than Petersen is in To Live and Die in L.A, I preferred John Lone to Willem Dafoe as well, Lone was absolutely brilliant in this.

I think Year of the Dragon has problems with pacing though, and some of the other supporting cast were pretty terrible.

To Live and Die in L.A - 8/10

Year of the Dragon - 7.5/10


I've only seen both once though, I'm gonna re-watch them and see if their roles reverse, maybe Year of the Dragon is stronger on repeated viewings whereas To Live and Die in L.A isn't.

"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." - Tyler Durden

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"I would give the edge to, To Live and Die in L.A"

So in a death-match To Live and Die... would win? ;)

I agree both are underrated. Can't say which one is better, it's been a while since I saw TLDLA (isn't that how movies are called nowadays? LOTR and HP etc.).

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I liked them both. Bought used VHS copies, cheap - not that good to bother getting DVDs.

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To Live... is an hour of all-too-trendy 80s cheese book-ended by one of the toughest, most uncompromising half-hours in all of 80s Hollywood. If the first half was able to hold up the standard it ends with, the movie would be a stone-cold masterpiece. As it is, the third-act overshadows everything for it to really rate it too high, even it the last act is killer enough for cult classic status. (And the Wang Chung soundtrack is pretty awful. For someone who managed to use modern and trendy pop music fairly well in the Punk soundtrack for Cruising, he seems completely out-of-touch here. For an L.A. movie, there were surely a hotbed of local talent he failed to capitalize on.)

Year of the Dragon has arguably more problems, but at least its consistent. Both the good and the bad rub shoulder throughout the film (with the good outnumbering the bad), and it's problems are at least always entertaining, never clichéd, unlike the first-hour of To Live.... Ariane may be horrid, but the rest of the cast is great, and Rourke and Lone are hands down better than Petersen and Defoe.

I guess it's what you want from your "flawed" crime film: a crime movie which walks a tight-rope between an A-class intelligent crime saga and a trashy ultra-macho b-movie the whole way through (Year of the Dragon), or a crime film that's two-third of a trashy ultra-macho, but unfortunately fairly predicatble, b-movie, but manages to turn into an unpredictable piece of dynamite tnt in its last act (To Live and Die in L.A.). Personally, I like the schizoid quality of Year of the Dragon more, and even the movie's flaws grow more endearing each time I watch it. To Live and Die, however, regardless of how many times I watch it, makes me feel that Friedkin dropped the ball for its first two acts.

Of course, if you want just a A-class quality 80s cop movie, Prince of the City is the way to go, but I even find Year of the Dragon's high-meets-low-art aesthetic more entertaining most of the time. It's like Sam Fuller for the 80s.

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Friedkin was one of the best directors of the 70s and 80s. French Connection, Exorcist, Sorcerer, Cruising, L.A., Rampage, etc.

Cimino made one incredible film, Deer Hunter, and the rest was all downhill. After 1978, Cimino was not a good director, could not cast well, and did not know how to choose a good soundtrack. Friedkin was a brilliant director, worked with some of the best actors of his time (Gene Hackman, Ellen Burstyn, Al Pacino, Willem Dafoe), and was a genius at picking great music for his films. Just look at Cruising or L.A. Those are two of the best soundtracks in movie history.

Year of the Dragon had about three great fast paced sequences; the killing of his wife and subsequent chase, the beat down in the club near the end, and the climax on the train tracks. Rourke was criminally misused. Ariane's performance is honestly one of the worst things I've ever seen in my life. She almost single-handedly ruined the entire film. The music was sappy and boring. Mickey played a guy 20 years too old for him, and totally miscast. Someone like Gene Hackman was fit for that grizzly, veteran cop role. Not Rourke, who was a pretty boy, James Dean, mid 20s type of guy at the time.

I understand how you can compare them, they were definitely directors with equal paths in the business, and made films very concurrent with one another. Another director I'd compare them to is Alan Parker who made Angel Heart and Mississippi Burning in the 80s. Although Parker and Friedkin still both trump Cimino as a director.

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Posh... Both Heavens Gate and Year of the Dragon are better than the always questionable Deer Hunter. While it'd be a stretch to call Year of the Dragon a masterpiece, Heaven's Gate is, and practically towers over everything else made in Hollywood that decade (Raging Bull and Blade Runner included).

And while I quite like Friedkin's work, there is no way films like Cruising, Sorcerer or To Live and Die in L.A. stand anywhere near Cimino at his best.

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Those are bold, BOLD statements. I can't agree with a single thing you said, but that's fine, you're entitled to an opinion. A very, very minority opinion at that, but nevertheless...

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The story of the cinema is written in bold opinions...

..And they're really not. Deer Hunter was a polarizing film when it came out, and some of its politics, and hints of xenophobia and misogyny are undeniably troubling (if not as clean-cut as some of the accusations of "fascism" try to make them out to be). It may be an Anti-Vietnam film, but its a very problematically conservative one, and that can leave a bad taste in one's mouth. It's also a lot less complex than either of Cimino's following films (even the MUCH inferior Salvatore). It's undeniably powerful though, and that's it's strong point.

Heaven's Gate has been hated since it came out, but its always had its defenders, and that group has been growing more and more as more people actually watch the film versus buying into its "legend". It was a debacle, and Cimino is an egotist, so in a way, the mess it became was unavoidable, but removed from its backstory, the movie is good, and I still don't believe the critics in America have ever given it a fair shake. They had the knives out for it beforehand, and ever since, the myth of Heaven's Gate as "the worst film ever" far overpowers any reality about the merits and genuine flaws of the film. However, I'm solidly convinced the movie will eventually be critically reevaluated, and it will enter annals of wrongfully treated masterpieces like Peeping Tom or Magnificent Ambersons. Granted, there's a long line... what with films like The Devils or The Victors not even on DVD yet. And that's of course if the cinema doesn't continue its downward slide into oblivion before it happens.

Year of the Dragon is a mess, but its always entertaining, and there's a genuinely complex and intelligent movie buried beneath those layers of overcooked macho pulp, which at the film's finer moments are clearly visible. And that pulp is deliciously done, so the film remains infinitely more watchable than Deer Hunter or Friedkin's film. And while Rourke could do Dean (see Rumble Fish), he was always much more in line with classic tough guys like Robert Mitchum or Charles Bronson in his persona. Perhaps someone like John Garfield would be a better point of comparison, in his ability to go from tough to sensitive. And he's at his best in the movie. And John Lone is just as good, and should have been a big star.

And considering their critical reputation, I don't think its bold to criticize Friedkin's later films, as they are all clearly flawed. Cimino's films are too, but at least the flaws are clearly part of Cimino's ambitious Tolstoy-esque vision; I don't think you could remove the flaws from his movies without also destroying the parts that are genius (Ariane in YotD being one exception). The flaws in Friedkin's films, however, are obvious enough that they can't be as easily forgotten.

Sorcerer suffers in comparison to the much superior Wages of Fear. When Friedkin sets out to make the original story his own, the film works beautifully. However, he relies on the original for most of the actual transport, and he simply can't beat Clouzot at his own moves. The bridge scene is the one inspired moment, but the rest is fairly unimaginative retreading, and considering the scenario is open to so many possibilities a director could take it, it's unfortunate.

I still believe Cruising was once a great film, and the few words I've heard Pacino say about it leads me to think I'm right. The film should have been, and was at one point, mainly a character study of a latent homosexual with the murders as a backdrop. The final film, however, is a high-class slasher film, albeit an atmospheric and well done one. The mythical lost footage would go a long way in saving it, but it seems it doesn't exist, and if it did, Warner wouldn't touch it.

To Live and Die has a lousy first hour, even if still manages to be entertaining. The worst example being Turturro using the "kid in a hospital schtick" to get away. Friedkin could have easily thought of a more clever and genuinely convincing way to for him to get away, and come away with a fresher and more thrilling moment, but as it is it's telegraphed from a mile away and tiresome. That's the problem with the first hour in a nutshell, down to the terrorist opening and soon-to-retire partner, and too-edgy-by-half touches like the bungee jumping and Wang Chung soundtrack. Thank god for that ending, because its the only place the film shows any balls.

I don't recall anything disagreeable about Rampage, its quite underrated, but its still only a good film, not a great one.

Even with the French Connection and The Exorcist, after repeated viewing, I find myself prefering the non-Friedkin sequels. Even Exorcist II despite being narratively incoherent and failing at being a "sequel" to the first one, works brilliantly as a collection of atmospheric set-pieces. If it was directed by Dario Argento or Lucio Fulci, and released simply as "The Heretic", it would be a cult classic by now. Now that's a BOLD opinion.

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I actually quite like Rumble Fish. Sure, it shows Coppola deliberately attempting to be edgy (he did call it a "teenage art-film"), but I don't feel its stylistic touches are opportunistic band-wagon jumping. Its amalgam of different epochal imagery and iconography does allow a unique style to his film more sophisticated than simply being fashionable. If anything, looking at magazines at the time, Rumble Fish did help define hip at the time, not simply follow it. While The Outsiders wasn't as deliberately hip, I think its a much more modish film.

Betty Blue isn't without merits entirely, but Beineix, like most of the Cinema du Look, definitely all suffered with an obnoxious fixation on all things chic and trendy. The one exception being Leos Carax, who was unfairly lumped in with them, because A) his style was not based on being in-vogue, but out of a desire to return the pure visual cinema of silent and early sound film, and B) his style didn't cover up substance, but was used as a mean to express his character's interior worlds.

I mention this only because I feel at its best moments Rumble Fish has the evocative imagery of Carax's work, although at its worst, it definitely could be mistaken for an American Cinema du Look film.

And while I have problems with Friedkin's work, I do think the last half-hour is completely worthy of the man who did French Connection.

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I agree, there's a lot in common with these two films; they both stank! Both protagonists were jerks in nearly every shape of the word... both stories were fairly predictable... both protagonists got away with so much that it bordered on unrealism...

But, on the other hand, there are moments in each that are memorable.

Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle. You've gotta tell them. SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!

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To live and die in LA is the better film IMO. It also has a great car chase scene.



Its that man again!!

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Trp1985, good call right down the line!


I just don't think we'll ever see movies like this again for a long while.












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I just don't think we'll ever see movies like this again for a long while.



I'll refer you to two movies that will leave you shocked and in awe:
Elite Squad and Elite Squad 2.

Sounds like typical action movie fanfare, yeah? Well, no. The second movie I rank up there with The Godfather 2...you talk about hitting home with all the problems our current day politics suffer from.

As much as you'd want to root for someone in either film you understand that the problems of corruption seed much higher than the typical idealism of "good" and "evil". I couldn't stop thinking about the harsh and brutal realism of Elite Squad 2...it's not gory or overtly violent, but man oh man will grip you and grip you hard.

Jose Padilha is an expert filmmaker, it's just a shame he's now attached to Robocop. I'll be rooting for him, but I have no hope that he will succeed.

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Great call; I had the same thoughts before discovering your post.

I like Year of the Dragon a lot, and may agree that Rourke and Lone are the superior pair.

But for me, Friedkin outdid himself with To Live and Die in L.A.. I think it's a riveting, layered masterpiece that he hasn't come close to in these near-30 years since.

P.S. Cimino also had Thunderbolt and Lightfoot to his credit

"...if that was off, I'd be whoopin' your ass up and down this street." ~ an irate Tarantino

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There´s something unpleasently obnoxious, sleazy and tacky about To Live And Die In L.A. that I find quite unappealing - and it´s rather cliche stuff really with its typical, uninspired dialogue and overt machismo, and in a large part it isn´t much different or better than pretty much any given Miami Vice episode. Also, while some of the cheesy, unmistakeably "80´s" synth soundtrack is very effective, there´s plenty of sub-par & flat out terrible stuff to be heard as well. And then there´s the issue of John Pankow who gives a performance that´s actually more terrible than that Ariane-chick´s acting here in Year Of The Dragon. So, yes, I do think Cimino´s come-back of sorts is indeed the better film of the two, inarguably flawed as it may be. It´s shot with a great deal of energy & virtuosity, it´s outstandingly paced with just enough conversation scenes to keep the action stuff from piling up and Rourke is very much at the top of his game (better than Petersen in Friedkin´s film - he gave a superior performance a year later in Manhunter). YOTD is engaging, occasionally exhilarating stuff; much underrated.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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