MovieChat Forums > Rocky IV (1985) Discussion > The deeper meaning/theme of Rocky 4...

The deeper meaning/theme of Rocky 4...

posted 9 years ago by ActionJunkie007
11 replies | jump to latest

I used to feel Rocky 4 was quite a shallow film. When you watch Rocky 1-3, you have a clear indication of what motives are driving Rocky, his fears, his triumphs, his problems, etc. So by the time we get to the victories, it all comes into focus and you have a fantastic "moral" to sink your teeth into!
But with Rocky 4, his speech in the end about changing, and the USA vs USSR stuff takes center stage, so it's easy to forget what the REAL "moral" of the story is. And that's the "warrior".

The film starts off showing Rocky at the top of his game, wealthy, healthy, and the champion of the world. (Just like Apollo in Rocky 1)When the launch of the Soviets into the professional boxing world happens, Apollo feels the need to let the warrior back out of the cage. When he talks to Rocky about it, he goes into great detail on how once the show passes Rocky by, he will know what Apollo is feeling. Empty. He explains that a fighter is like a "warrior" and when any fighter gets in the ring, he's proving his self worth. It's a sport that could kill you, and it's the risk anyone takes getting into that ring. If you aren't fighting in those "wars", you might as well "be dead" because fighting wars is all a warrior knows how to do.

Rocky understands this and agrees to help Apollo. When Apollo starts to lose the fight, Rocky pleads to have the "war" stopped. But Apollo refuses. A warrior doesn't give up. He fights and he fights until he achieves victory or dies trying. And that's why Apollo, above all else, tells him "don't stop this fight, no matter what".

Obviously, it doesn't go so well with Apollo and he ends up dying. This belief, though, about the warrior resonates with Rocky and it's the driving force behind fighting Draco. Of course, there is a revenge aspect, but deep down, He too, has to let the warrior out and put it all on the table. That he can go to war with another "warrior" and survive or die trying. It may not make sense, when you factor in their families and what's really important, but Rocky 4 shows that Rocky, in many ways, has lost sight of his importance to family. A theme that is revisited and answered in Rocky 5.

The mirror aspect of USA vs USSR fits with the ideal that every fighter is going "to war" in the ring, and it does have a nice balance, but at the end of the day, it's all about the warrior inside ourselves and how far we are willing to go to fight for what we believe in.

Anyone else see this, or wish to elaborate? Counter?

Who's strangling the cat?

[–] whatsupyo 9 years ago

No, you pretty much nailed it. Great post. The Apollo quote "Maybe you don't know what I'm talking about now, but you'll know, when it's over" is the one I always think about when I have thoughts about the deeper meaning of Rocky 4.

[–] ActionJunkie007 9 years ago

Thanks!! And I couldn't agree more with "Maybe you don't know what I'm talking about now, but you'll know, when it's over"

Look at Rocky Balboa and how all he could think about was getting back in that ring. Needing to prove he still "got it". What a warrior, indeed!

Who's strangling the cat?

[–] Hendry_William_French 9 years ago

Good post. I've always thought Apollo's warrior speech is one of the highlights of the movie, and proof that Rocky IV isn't just a goofy boxing film as lots of people think. It's got some heart and a great message, too.

Imdb message boards - kick someone's ass on the first day, or become someone's bitch.

[–] ActionJunkie007 9 years ago

Thanks!!

proof that Rocky IV isn't just a goofy boxing film as lots of people think. It's got some heart and a great message, too

Exactly!! It took me a bit to find it myself but I'm really glad I did, and I really found a new appreciation for the film that I didn't have before. I loved it as a kid, so nostalgia wise, it's always been a favorite, but unlocking the "heart" behind it is far more rewarding!

Who's strangling the cat?

[–] Hendry_William_French 9 years ago

Exactly, well said. I feel the same. There's lots of cool allegories in Rocky IV, especially with the cold war & east vs west themes. Each fighter embodies what their country stands for, Drago's like a warhead himself etc. I also always thought the match up of Rocky and Drago is almost a modern retelling of David and Goliath, that of kind fabled imagery.

Imdb message boards - kick someone's ass on the first day, or become someone's bitch.

[–] federeragassi 9 years ago

It's a nice effort. Unfortunately, I still think Rocky iv is by far the weakest of the first 4 films because it really isn't about anything. Rocky is about the search for significance. Rocky 2 is about marriage. Rocky 3 is about how success can change you. Rocky iv is basically..dont let the bad guys get the better of you, be a man!

Dont get me wrong, its still a good film and has one GREAT scene. (Watching their old fight and also the scene in the dressing room). And the training and fight scenes are masterfully done and beautifully edited. In summary, I think it's wonderful popcorn entertainment, but not nearly as moving as 1-3 because it lacks their substance.

[–] ActionJunkie007 9 years ago

I still think Rocky iv is by far the weakest

I agree as I feel every other film in the series has a better moral/message, but...

it really isn't about anything.

I have to respectfully disagree.

Rocky iv is basically..dont let the bad guys get the better of you, be a man!

It's more about honor and going out on your own terms, no matter the consequences. I'm assuming you watched Rocky Balboa, right?? He even circles back to the Rocky 4 message at the end of the fight. Listen to how man times "warrior" comes up and especially the scene when his son pleads to Rocky that he has nothing more to prove, before the last round.

Every Rocky film has it's piece in the puzzle and they all have a moral/message. While 1-3 are stronger (or maybe more relatable?) it still doesn't mean 4 has nothing to offer.

Who's strangling the cat?

[–] Cruiser007 9 years ago

So trueeee agree with you :) i wanted to say something similar but your analysis was way more than what i wanted to tell about Rocky 4
I feel rocky4 and 5 are weakest of the series i liked all the parts but somethings missing in these 2 parts wonder whats that?

[–] ActionJunkie007 9 years ago

I feel rocky4 and 5 are weakest of the series

It's a tough one because I tend to find the moral/message in Rocky 5 to be one of the best in the series. I think it really circles back to Rocky 1, because for Rocky, the most important thing to him was Adrian and by extension, his kid, and that tends to get a bit lost in the middle of the pack. The lyrics to Measure of a Man and the ending with Rocky actually going into the Art Museum and we pan out to his statue. It really says it all about what TRUE success is all about. Thankfully Rocky Balboa didn't eclipse that, and the family struggles are coming from his son, not Rocky himself, so the theme carries over.

I find that to be the most rewarding because that is what truly matters, or should to Rocky.

Who's strangling the cat?

[–] federeragassi 9 years ago

Rocky Balboa is definitely "about something": the struggle to find purpose and meaning when your most productive years, in society's eyes, are behind you. Or basically, how to deal with getting old.

Though,explain this for me: Rocky's problem is that he is "living backwards," to use a Paulieism. So the way that Rocky fixes this is to fight again at age 59? It's this philosophical contradiction that, to me, brings the film down a bit.

[–] jsn_hylnd 9 years ago

Fighting defines who Rocky is.