MovieChat Forums > Legend (1986) Discussion > It´s all about the music! Tangerine vs. ...

It´s all about the music! Tangerine vs. Goldsmith.

posted 15 years ago by pradastreet
62 replies | jump to latest

For the record, according to the production, Legend had two cuts because the movie had rights in more than one producer. And the screening had not been very successful, making R. Scott cut the film and put another score in Berlin to the US. version.
Both cuts of Legend, making almost 2 entirely different movies, had their faults and their highs. The music is probably what made the most controversial discussions about the fans of the movie. It´s a personal thing. Some people, or I believe most people, prefer the Goldsmith classical score. Some not. I´m one of those who thinks that Tangerine Dream added more to the touch of Legend´s wonder. It´s very hard to put in words but it worth a try.
Legend is a hybrid movie. The setting, scenarios and the whole world in Legend looks and feels totally hermetic. I mean, for example Lord of the Rings takes place in some forgotten Europe. I think Legend was suppose to take place in our thoughts, making the narrative more claustrophobic and thick with lots of gritty elements in the art direction really revealing us that we are inside of a dream. Tangerine Dream´s score, the US. version mind you, captures this hybrid and hermetic feeling more than the classical open-world Goldsmith´s score.
Tangerine Dream music score starts with a celtic flute like an echoed wind in hollow oak, making it´s way in a change of keys in the very beginning of the open titles just as the bear reaches for the beehive, like a low key, almost like the humming of the trees, going a little dark on the felling of the score for a bit, showing the orions that the magical forest has also survival elements. Later, we hear a four-stroke key every time the goblins appear, vaguely sounds like the J.F. Sebastian´s apartment in Blade Runner, when surrounded by various android-goblins.
That´s just a couple of artistic elements that we can see in Tangerine Dream´s bold and free-thinking score. To capture the obscurity and hermetic feel of Legend. Making a more significant signature, Tangerine Dream used a more mystic feel, like it´s not meant to be music at all.
And the whole score was made in 4 weeks no less.

[–] BillyFisher 15 years ago

I agree it's all in the score, but I thought Goldsmith's score was far superior. It felt like a different movie, and had a lot more light and shade to it. It really added to the movie.

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[–] TheSolarSailor 15 years ago

I prefer Goldsmith's score as well.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] am_buglet_82 15 years ago

I like them both.

The TD one was the one I saw first so it holds a special magic with me (even though I didn't even see the movie until was 18).

However, the Goldsmith score is very beautiful too.

I don't think there is a "better", I think they're both good.

-Amanda

"She will remember your heart when men are fairy tales in storybooks written by rabbits"

[–] TheSolarSailor 15 years ago

I don't dislike the TD score at all, I just prefer Goldsmith more. Of course, I didn't really grow up on TD's version, as I was a kid and watched it on home video when it first came out. I just didn't like the movie at all back then. I revisited it YEARS later when the Director's Cut was available and I really enjoyed. I have since rewatched the theatrical version and the TD score wasn't bad at all, but I still think the theatrical cut overall is weak. I like the Director's Cut of the film and Goldsmith's music the best.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] thornsthorns 11 years ago

seems like people like whichever version they grew up with.

Personally from what I've heard, the tangerine dream score makes the film dark and twisted, foreboding, whilst the goldsmith score makes the film disneyish and ethereal.

So might be matter of preference.

I don't really remember it much from childhood, but from an adult perspective (after watching goldsmith's version recently) I wish I had watched the tangerine score one, as the film is too childish otherwise. The dark score is more suited to an adult audience I'd say.

the only problem with tangerine version which is US theatrical version is the editing of the film butchered the film out of the few good moments it had.

[–] TheLittleSongbird 15 years ago

I prefer Goldsmith's score personally, then again Jerry Goldsmith is my favourite film composer, and it is the European version of the film I have on DVD. There was a time when I disliked the Tangerine Dream score, but after rewatching the American version on televsion, I am becoming more receptive to it. I do like how mysterious and atmospheric it sounds, but Goldsmith's is so beautiful, haunting and entrancing those are the reasons why I prefer it.

"Life after death is as improbable as sex after marriage"- Madeleine Kahn(CLUE, 1985)

[–] runner_georgio 15 years ago

I agree with you, pradastreet, Tangerine Dream's "mystic feel" captures the essence of the fantasy film. I grew up on the theatrical version. I remember when it debuted on HBO a couple years after it came out. Since then, I have been hooked. There is something about Tangerine Dream's interpretation of the movie that validates, or supports, the magic of the film. I enjoyed seeing the "new" scenes in the Director's Cut, but I craved for the music I was more familiar with, the music that made Legend unlike any fantasy film I have ever seen. Don't get me wrong, I think Goldsmith's music is wonderful, but it's classical score doesn't have the dreamy, fantasy-like touch in the way Tangerine Dream completes the movie in my opinion.

I must say, however, that I was enthralled while watching one of my all-time favorites with a different sounding script (and score) and length of some scenes! I admit, the familiarity with the theatrical version is more to my liking over the other. If I grew up on Goldsmith's score, aka Ridley's cut, I would not have liked the theatrical version because of shorter scenes or lines, but the music would have blown me away. There's just something magical and hypnotic about that last scene with the sun gently protruding through the trees, the wind peacefully breezing through the forest, and Tangerine Dream's 'Loved by the Sun' "for goodness sake." Unbelievable on how it was made up in 4 weeks. Wow.

I was 7 or 8 when I first watched Legend on HBO. I still have the VHS tape from when my two brothers and I taped it in 1987 or 1988. Classic.

I watched Ridley's cut TODAY for the first time, age 29. I really liked it, but "it's all about the music... Tangerine Dream verses Goldsmith" and to whichever one prefers.

_____________

On another and final note, if Legend was made today, I think so many things would have been CGI. I appreciate Ridley Scott and his team of make-up artists. Some CGI characters today look so fake.

[–] 5535 15 years ago

TANGERINE DREAM!

I grew up on the American version, and I loved it as a kid. Even to this day I love it, despite its many flaws, and I miss the practical effects that aren't used as much these days. I also felt that this movie captured pure fantasy, and in many ways I prefer it over the Lord Of The Rings movies.

The director's cut has a few scenes and brief shots that I would have added into the American cut, but while Goldsmith's score has some good parts, it isn't as powerful as Dream's. I usually prefer a score like Jerry's for a movie like this, as the instruments and sounds are more appropriate for a fantasy, but unfortunately some of his score is very annoying. When the goblins appear, the music abruptly switches to a jarring and frenetic tone, and it feels forced. We know that these are bad goblins, so we don't need to have annoying music to tell us that, just something subtle perhaps, or nothing at all sometimes. Fortunately, that's the worst of Jerry's score in the director's cut. The rest of his score is pretty good for the most part, though at times it is just a little too sickly sweet. One scene where it fails against Dream's score is when Jack is apologizing to the unicorn. The music is gloomy, without much hope, whereas the Tangerine Dream score is tragic, remorseful yet uplifting. The dance with Lilly in the black dress had a great score from Jerry, though at times I found some of it to be too grand and overdone, but still pretty solid. I prefer the Tangerine Dream score here only slightly, since it's a bit more haunting and menacing, and also because it has the better transformation of Lilly wearing the dress.

Where Tangerine Dream slightly fails, is during Lilly's introduction scene, as the music is quite ominous, and not innocent and sweet, which was where Ridley succeeded in his cut. Now I didn't LOVE Jerry's theme for Lilly, but at least it was more appropriate to introduce us to her with that kind of music.

For the ending, Dream's score is better, because it doesn't go out with a wimper like Jerry's did. It's a bit overly triumphant and cheerful, but it brings more emotion to the movie IMO. The ending in the U.S, is also the better one by far. I don't like the ending song though, and feel it should have no singing, just fantasy music.

On that note, despite a few missteps here and there, and while not a typical sound for fantasy, Tangerine Dream brings much needed emotion and power to the movie.

[–] caveral 15 years ago

I'm going with Tangerine Dream on this. Legend was the first movie I ever saw at the drive-in as a kid. I loved it then, and at 36, I love it now. It was also the first DVD I bought. I enjoyed seeing the cut parts, they added a bit more depth to some scenes. But to me "Loved By The Sun" captures the entire feel of the movie with that one song.

[–] gwnightscream 14 years ago

I love the Tangerine Dream music for the film.
The only music of Jerry Goldsmith's I really
like in the Director's cut is the main titles.

[–] aaronalmarez 14 years ago

I have the 2-disc special edition DVD set of Legend that has both the U.S. theatrical version and director Ridley Scott's original cut. The U.S. version has the Tangerine Dream score while the director's cut has the Jerry Goldsmith score. For me personally, I prefer the Tangerine Dream score over Jerry Goldsmith's score. Primarily because I was always used to seeing the U.S. version ever since I was a kid. I didn't know that there was an original director's cut till I saw the end of the movie on one of the "Encore" channels. At the end of the movie, I noticed that the music for the end credits was orchestral compared to the song, "Is your love strong enough" by former Roxy Music singer Bryan Ferry which was played at the end credits of the U.S. theatrical version for which that version of the movie I was more used to seeing/hearing. I even made the mistake of buying the director's cut version of the movie that had the original score. That was a disappointment but I was surprised that the music video for the song, "Is your love strong enough" was included on that version of the DVD. Eventually I bought the 2-disc special edition DVD set just to hear the Tangerine Dream score on the U.S. version along with the Bryan Ferry song and the other song, "Loved by the sun" by Jon Anderson of Yes with Tangerine Dream which was also included in the U.S.theatrical version as well. I also included both songs on two separate discs of an 80's music CD compilation that I did a couple of years ago. Once again, in my opinion, I prefer the Tangerine Dream score over the original Jerry Goldsmith score for the movie.

[–] Hollowshape 13 years ago

This movie needs a Danny Elfman score.

Yeah, sorry.

[–] Hollowshape 13 years ago

I think the movie would sound great with Danny Elfman's score from Nightbreed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj6rI3GyKeE

[–] Samiel73 13 years ago

I'm a big Jerry Goldsmith fan, but prefer the Tangerine Dream version. I'm happy most people agree with me. The Goldsmith score is nice, but seems corny, old fashioned, and saccharine to me.
I don't think it's one of his better scores. Brief sections of it are pretty. The song of the "free folk" was cute, but too much so.
Someone said the Goldsmith score is too much like what you'd expect for this kind of film, and I agree. It weighs it down and keeps it in the past. The movie past, not the legendary past. The Tangerine Dream New Age type music is like a breath of fresh air in this case, while the Goldsmith score is a bit stale, like rotted posies pressed between pages of Tennyson.
Strangely,Goldsmith's music for "Rambo:First Blood" is brilliant and rousing.
In the theatrical version I liked "Is Your Love Strong Enough" for the end credits, but didn't care for "Loved by the Sun". That fellow singing at the conclusion was too high pitched for me, and went on forever a few octaves too high.
When Lilly sings to the unicorn in the Goldsmith version, it's a bit much. Then she starts singing to Jack right afterward to calm him down when he's upset with her. Enough with the singing already!
I own CDs of both scores, and have listened to them many times.
For those who like the Tangerine Dream score, I've heard them perform the "enchanted forest" music from Legend live, and it was breathtakingly gorgeous, painting imagery in my mind. I could almost see the forest.
It was under-utilized in the actual film, and on the soundtrack album.

[–] megArnold 13 years ago

Goldsmith.

It's what was originally intended by the director, and how the movie was originally released. The whole Daphnis-and-Chloe connection is played out with this. It's lush and extravagant, like the forest with the petals showering down and unicorns grazing.

Yes, it's very European, and that's why Americans hate it.

The Tangerine score was forced upon the film for the US release, and you can hear it. Doesn't match anything in the movie. Random synth gurgling and cheesy pop songs. The ideal soundtrack for shooting androids.

In the end, however, it seems to depend how you first saw the movie as a child. We all want our childhood back. And we all want the soundtrack to it.

--
Hmmm?

[–] night_wolf873 13 years ago

You make it sound like Tangerine wasn't even trying or they blindly mixed up some music to go with it. Not true, some pieces do actually sound better than Jerry's pieces and do go with the scenes. As said before, some of the musical scores are "surreal" or ethereal in their composition. My favorite has to be Lily's theme or Unicorn's theme with the flute.

It's always confounding to me when people say orchestral scores are always superior to synthesizer based music. Heck, it's happening a lot these days, electric music in movies is being replaced by horns and big drums because everyone else is doing it. Now that is redundant.

True, it comes down what you saw first but that's no reason to judge another version too harshly and not give it its due credit. Goldsmith made it seem and sound like a Disney movie, while TD made it seem like a fantasy or mystical illusion. Similar to what Coppola's Dracula was, in a visual sense. There's both good and bad pieces in both versions, and it's my personal opinion that movie industry could benefit from a mix of orchestral and synthesizer based music, not every movie is cut out for orchestral music.

[–] mradam-3 13 years ago

I like the Tangerine Dream score so much better!

Just like poster 5535 ( Are we really trying on these names anymore?), I grew up with that one. And now that I discovered this other version, it seems out of place for me for the most part. I enjoy almost all of Jerry Goldsmith's score from other films and TV shows. And it was still very good, but it didn't compare to the TD score to me.

The ending was a lot better with "Loved by the Sun" or whatever that song was, almost 80s pop rather than fantasy film style, but it worked. Another notable part was Lilly's dance with the black dress, yes. The pace and mood of the song in the TD score just fit better with what was going on, and had a great switch when she and the dress combine. The JG score just didn't seem to match up with these key moments as solidly.

[–] speedolitec 13 years ago

I prefer the TD music actually. It just goes better for me.

[–] pacific_rim_lady 13 years ago

I have the box set and watched the director's cut for about twenty until I said to myself, "What is it with this music? It’s really getting on my nerves! It sounds like a 1960s Disney film!” I switched to the theatrical release and was just blown away! The Tangerine Dream score is awesome! So that is where I stand …

[–] Benprogfuse 13 years ago

I agree with you entirely. The Tangerine Dream score carried the mood of each scene. I had never heard the Goldsmith score until I bought the DVD in 2002 and it felt like the movie was missing something.