one question...


Why does this pic have two names? I have it on VHS as "The Rose and the Sword" and luckily found a DVD copy of "Flesh &Blood" this weekend. I know that it had two names so I recognized it immediately but I've slept since '85 and can't recall the details. As far as the film goes it IS a bit more realistic than other movies at that time and since it came out WAY before the sweeping epics of "Braveheart" "Gladiator" and others it stands out as a very good movie for when it was made. - Fly

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I think "The Rose & the Sword" is the titel given to the movie in the USA to the rated version of the movie where as "Flesh & Blood" is the unrated version. Some of these right wing cranks and relgiuos do goter Flander types protested the movie or something back then - like they always do if something is realisticly depicted and doesn't fit there Disney/'Burb POV of the world.

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I think "The Rose & the Sword" is the titel given to the movie in the USA to the rated version of the movie where as "Flesh & Blood" is the unrated version. Some of these right wing cranks and relgiuos do goter Flander types protested the movie or something back then - like they always do if something is realisticly depicted and doesn't fit there Disney/'Burb POV of the world.


Actually, both the flap and the differences in rating MAY have had something to do with the fact that Jennifer Jason-Leigh was underage when this flick was filmed. :/ I can't swear to that, but I've definitely heard it speculated.

If you do the math on her IMDB birthdate and the date of this film's release, she was "supposedly" 22 at the time of filming. However, actressess lie about their ages all the time to get parts. And you have to admit, she looked pretty childlike.

If she WAS underage, the outrage is a bit more understandable. Some of the sexuality was a little over the top.

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> [...] And you have to admit, she looked pretty childlike.

If a girl gets her period, she's a woman. And then her body is hers to do with as she pleases. Also: she was supposed to portray a 12 year old girl - cause that was the normal age girls got married back then.

> If she WAS underage,

What age would that be? 21?? Maybe in some sexuallmorality backwards country like the US. SCNR.

> the outrage is a bit more understandable.

If you some freaked out waco like Denny Pattyn with 12th century morals maybe, but not if you a modern, scientificly educated person.
--
"I used to be Tommy Verceti, now I'm Phil Cassidy."

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The age of consent is 18 in most places in the US.

I watched this movie on Starz last night and the sexuality was rather softcore pr0n. Not that I care. I liked the movie.

Well I don't have anything else planned for today, let's get drunk! - Bender

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> The age of consent is 18 in most places in the US.

Your missing the point. It dossn't matter what the age of consent is ANYWHERE. This movie is set in the 13. century. Back then ppl got married very young, because they didn't live that long.

Hellen (of Troy) was 10 when she was married to King (forgot his name). And she ran away to Troy with the younger Prince of Troy when she was 13. He btw. was 17.

Gunivere (SP?) from the Arthus legend was 12 when she was given to Arthus as wife by her father who needed Arthus help against invading forces. And Arthus was like 40 at that point!

Same thing with Bonnie & Clyde: She was 16, he was 19. The plate at the beginng of the the movie that she was 21, was just done so they could have "sex"scenes on screen. So haveing Beatty and Dunaway play them is ridicilous.

The stuff they don't tell you in history class is the most interessting...
--
"I used to be Tommy Verceti, now I'm Phil Cassidy."

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Jennifer Jason Leigh was in fact 22 when she made this movie. She just had a childlike look.

Your missing the point. It dossn't matter what the age of consent is ANYWHERE. This movie is set in the 13. century. Back then ppl got married very young, because they didn't live that long.
15th Century, not the 13th. Otherwise you're right.

Hellen (of Troy) was 10 when she was married to King (forgot his name). And she ran away to Troy with the younger Prince of Troy when she was 13. He btw. was 17.
If you mean Helen of Troy (actually Helen of Sparta), she was married to King Menelaus. I hope you're aware that these are literary characters, not historical figures. Do the ages you quote come from The Iliad? I confess I've never read the whole thing.

Gunivere (SP?) from the Arthus legend was 12 when she was given to Arthus as wife by her father who needed Arthus help against invading forces. And Arthus was like 40 at that point!
Again, these are literary characters. Which source do these ages come from -- Nennius, Geoffrey of Monmouth, Chretien de Troys?

Same thing with Bonnie & Clyde: She was 16, he was 19. The plate at the beginng of the the movie that she was 21, was just done so they could have "sex"scenes on screen. So haveing Beatty and Dunaway play them is ridicilous.
These, on the other hand, were real people. When they met, Bonnie Parker was 19, not 16. Clyde Barrow was 20.

The stuff they don't tell you in history class is the most interessting...
Evidently.

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> Jennifer Jason Leigh was in fact 22 when she made this movie.

No she wassn`t. She admitted in an interview in 1999 that she made herself 4 years older so she could appear in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

What she said in that interview was that "...she played a 14 year old pretenting to be 18, despite she was a 14 year old pretenting to be 18 playing a 14 year old. ...".

If you count from that she must have been 17 going on 18 when the movie was shot in Spain.

>> Hellen (of Troy) was 10 when she was married to King (forgot his name). And
>> she ran away to Troy with the younger Prince of Troy when she was 13. He
>> btw. was 17.
> If you mean Helen of Troy (actually Helen of Sparta), she was married to King
> Menelaus.

Forced to marry.

> I hope you're aware that these are literary characters, not historical
> figures.

Just as in our times some personalities have to be protected. They may be fictonal names, but they are based on ppl who actually lived in that time.

> Do the ages you quote come from The Iliad?

No. I remeber them from history class cause we had a big discussion with our teacher back then, because some of the girls in our class where around that same age.

>> Gunivere (SP?) from the Arthus legend was 12 when she was given to Arthus as
>> wife by her father who needed Arthus help against invading forces. And
>> Arthus was like 40 at that point!
> Again, these are literary characters.

Based on ppl who actually existed.

> Which source do these ages come from

My history teacher. Don't know where she got them from.

>> Same thing with Bonnie & Clyde: She was 16, he was 19. The plate (...)
> These, on the other hand, were real people. When they met, Bonnie Parker was
> 19, not 16. Clyde Barrow was 20.

Wrong. She was 16 going on 17, had allready been maried, divorced and even had a 3 or 4 year old child. He was just fresh out of prison somewhere around 19/20. Thats why he was released so early despite the charge (Manslaughter AFAIR) because he was a juvenile when he went in.
--
"I used to be Tommy Vercetti, now I'm Phil Cassidy."

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She was 16 going on 17, had allready been maried, divorced and even had a 3 or 4 year old child.


They said that in that other movie http://imdb.com/title/tt0103858/ didnt they? That was much better then the Dunaway/Beatty version. Even that it was only TV it was pretty intense.

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We may be a backwoods country, but we have the most weapons and we're psychotic enough to use them. We will make the world follow our twisted ways.

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> We may be a backwoods country,

Noboddy said that. I addmire and love the USA. I lived there and went to school there for a time, after all. But there are some morons (especially in the bible belt and ueberfreaks like Denny Petin) who cleary where expelt aboard the Mayflower from Europe for a vaild reason - and still havn't found there way into the 21. century.

> but we have the most weapons and we're psychotic enough to use them.

If you would have, like you should have after 9/11 (like *I* would have, had I been in charge... but Bush is a coward), the world would be a better place.

> We will make the world follow our twisted ways.

Now, if you would only back that up...
--
"I used to be Tommy Verceti, now I'm Phil Cassidy."

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