Unfinished? - Explorers (1985) Discussion

[–] netrage 19 years ago

Yeah, I am curious as to what the "finished" product would have been like. The movie, however, never struck me as being "unfinished".

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[–] jlevel7 19 years ago

unfinished i dont understand what da ya mean?

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[–] bladerunner26 19 years ago

The version of the film that is currently available is a rough cut. When it was being made new people took over the studio and they decided that they wanted Explorers finished 3 months early so they went to Dante and basically told him that whatever he had done was it. And that is what they released. I think it's one film Dante has said that he would like to go back and re-edit or remake.

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[–] ezzy_ezzy 17 years ago

it did me, i thought it was a mess with unexplained pieces put together, zero character development. Bare in mind ive seen it as an adult. I just thought it was purely pointless too. There was no climax to the movie.

EZ the man with two legs

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[–] Howlin Wolf 17 years ago

Yeah, it's strange to think that the finished product was originally meant to be more 'polished'... As I was watching it, I was happy enough with the version we actually got!

It's made from bits of real panther, so you know it's good...

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[–] imdb-3754 19 years ago

I too came here looking for this information and found nothing :(

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[–] Ozymandias-King-of-Kings 19 years ago

Go through the board, there's plenty of information on what scenes were in the rough cut that didn't make it into the final cut.

The previous poster had it right: The studio moved up the release date and Dante had to give them the film when he wasn't finished. They released this "unfinished" film the weekend of 'Live Aid'. Naturally, the film bombed.

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[–] glover877 19 years ago

George Gipe wrote the book, which was a movie tie-in version with little extra material. There are two versions of this movie, with two distinctly different endings. Someone else mentioned it... Ben is alone in the class and the Thunder Road is in the corner and he climbs in and then it switches to them flying. (I haven't watched the DVD version yet because I've heard so many negative things, but I'll likely buy it soon just to have it in widescreen. I don't know which ending the DVD has.) Only one version is available on VHS and I've only seen the other once on network tv. Usually on tv they show the home video version. I hoped they would present both when it came out on DVD. Which ending is on the DVD?

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[–] Ozymandias-King-of-Kings 19 years ago

What was different about the ending you saw on TV?

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[–] glover877 19 years ago

I remember one ending where Ben was in class and he stood up and saw the Thunder Road in the corner and then he went through it and went into the "circuit world" where they could all fly. Then there was another ending where he was in class looking at the green necklace the aliens gave him and then he got up and was flying without seeing Thunder Road in the Corner. Do you remember both of those, or is my memory playing tricks?

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[–] Ozymandias-King-of-Kings 19 years ago

You're talking about one of the differences between the US home video version and the international/theatrical version. The main changes in the 'Special home video version' were:

At the end Ben sees the Thunder Road in the classroom. In the other version he doesn't.

When they're rolling the Thunder Road down the hill, it doesn't run out of control, but just cuts to them walking in the creek. In the other version they have to chase it down the hill.

And finally, the US home video version doesn't have the scene of Ben and Wolfgang walking to school, whereas the international version does.

I'm still dreaming of a special edition with all the deleted scenes!

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[–] glover877 19 years ago

Me too. Thanks for clarifying. All they have to do is splice all of the scenes together, letterbox it, and put it out on DVD. I remember those scenes you described, but I don't remember anything about Dick Miller's character finding Wolfgang's brother in the ship like some of these people are talking about. I only remember him finding Ben's jacket.

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[–] Ozymandias-King-of-Kings 19 years ago

The scene with Wolfgang's brother was one of a couple of scenes they filmed but cut out. The scenes exist in the novelisation, and there are pictures of them in the Explorers storybook.

As well as the scene with Wolfgang's brother, there is a scene where the boys attend a party thrown by Lori Swenson, Ben tries to kiss her and she rebuffs him, then the boys argue as they walk home. There is also a scene at the end of the film where Lori meets the boys at school (after their final flight), Steve Jackson grabs what Wolfgang was given by the aliens and drops it, it makes his clothes disappear, and he runs off in embarrassment with all the other kids laughing at him.

I think all of the scenes sound great, but I fear they may be lost forever!

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[–] glover877 19 years ago

I remember most of that from the book, especially the scene at Lori's party. It's been a while since I read it, though, I should probably dig it up and reread it.

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[–] ezzy_ezzy 17 years ago

yes i remember it, here is the clip on youtube

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Sr0Qtd3Ro

EZ the man with two legs

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[–] lordasaki 18 years ago

Could you please elaborate? I checked the entire forum, all I could find was mentions of the birthday party scene, Wolfgang's brother, and the bully at the end. Are those really the only scenes that Dante didn't finish?

I always imagined it was a lot less finished than that...I always suspected there was supposed to be more in the ship near the end, since the end credits say that a different guy edited that portion.

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[–] Ozymandias-King-of-Kings 18 years ago

The scenes you mentioned are the ones that were filmed and cut. There was a difference in edits between the US video version and the UK version; the UK version has the scene of them walking to school and a longer sequence when they're taking the Thunder Road home, and the US version has a scene with the Thunder Road in the classroom at the end.

Apart from the cut scenes, the film wasn't actually finished when the studio took it. They moved up the release date on Dante, and even though the last third of the film still needed a lot of work, they took it and hacked it together, releasing a version he all but disowned. I'm not sure whether there was much more filming to do, although I think there was some and owing to time pressure Dante had to finish up quickly and try to fix things in the editing room (which he never really got to do).

Here's an excerpt from an interview with Dante I found on the net years ago (I can't find the source anymore):

People are always asking me about Explorers, but Explorers was never finished so I doubt that I'll be able to go back and do any kind of a reconstruction. It was the rough cut. We never finished the movie. They moved up the release date and said, "Okay, you're finished." We had never even had a preview, so it was very much a work in progress. I would do many things differently if I had the opportunity, but I have a feeling that considering its megaflop status that it's not going to be a picture they're going to want to revisit any time soon.

Doesn't the loyal following warrant such a restoration?

It's encouraging. I used to run into people all the time who said that they loved it which is nice because I don't know where they were on opening day. It opened the day of the Live Aid concert which was a marketing coup that has yet to be duplicated.

What would have been different?

Well, just about everything. This movie started without a completed script also. There was really no third act so a lot of it was sort of improvised. We shot a lot of footage. We had probably a three hour, 15 minute rough cut and the choice of what goes in and what comes out makes one kind of a movie versus another kind of a movie. There was a lot of spiritual kind of stuff in the movie that didn't make it in at all. The ending is the ending that it is because there were no completed effects shots so we just sort of had to stop. We had to re-loop things to cover up things that didn't match anymore because it was cut short, and it's just a mess. It's just a movie that looks like it didn't have a director. There's a big scene under a tree where they talk about something completely different than what they said on the day because we looped it with all different dialogue to give the picture any kind of sense of closure at all.

That would be a fascinating DVD.

It would be, but the problem is I don't think that footage exists anymore. Movies that aren't big moneymakers, the B negative and stuff tends to go south and end up under freeways and things.

There you go, a three hour 15 minute rough cut. The scenes that people have seen pictures of (Party, Bully, Brother) were clearly left in until the last minute, because they made it into all the promotional materials.

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[–] lordasaki 17 years ago

I ended up buying the novel (not the picturebook). Got it today, been reading it a bit. Some parts were obviously omitted for pacing reasons, but I can briefly list the major changes:

Ben's intro dream is extended a bit at the beginning, he's jumping around before he figures out he can fly.

Wolfgang's dream before Ben wakes him up (naked at school).

Darren's dream. He's working on a motorcycle in the livingroom, and his parents are argueing about how he always makes a mess.

Ben trying to get a ride to school from his older brother, Bill.

Wolfgang and Ben walking to school (from the theatrical cut of the film).

Ben daydreaming in class, the scene where Darren runs away from Steve Jackson is extended.

That's about it for the major stuff so far, I'll have some updates as I progress. The short scene with Ben and Bill is pretty interesting, so I'll type it out:

[Ben] darted onto the front porch just as Bill was getting into his car, a shiny ten-year-old model.
"Hey, Bill," he said. "Can I have a ride over to Wolfgang's house? It's on the way to school. Won't take you a second."
Bill shook his head. "Sorry, kid. I'm giving Andrea a ride. There's a student-principal committee meeting today."
"So what?"
"So there's no time to fool around."
"You probably just want to be alone with Andrea," Ben charged.
"Maybe," Bill smiled.
"Bet you're gonna ask to take her to the drive-in."
"Friday night." Bill smirked before turning away from his younger brother as though he didn't exist.

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[–] lordasaki 17 years ago

Chapter three has a whole bunch of stuff that didn't make it into the film.

Dinner scene at the Crandall place. Bill brags that he has a good chance of being class president, Ben gets jealous and brags that he got "massacred". He asks his dad if he can go to space camp for the Summer, he says he'll think about it. They have an arguement.

Later, he's in his bedroom, and his mom comes in to console him. There's a great line here that would've helped to further explain his disappointment when he finally meets the aliens: "You want to be an explorer, is that it? A modern-day Christopher Columbus . . ."
"Yeah. Why not? It's exciting that we can even think about exploring new worlds. There's gotta be something out there, Mom. New life, planets, people. And if they're there, they can probably help us. Maybe they know how to cure all our diseases and wipe out war and hunger--"

This is all right before that wonderful scene where he climbs onto his roof. I really would've liked to have seen this make it into the movie, the whole family dynamic would've added a lot to it IMO...oh well =/

After this is a scene where Darren's parents are fighting and he can't sleep, he's too busy trying to figure out how Ben and Wolfgang pulled the trick with the holes in the books. He sneaks outside into his workshop toolshed (possibly the same one they destroy after testing the air generator later in the film) and tries simulating the trick with a hole punch. He fails and gives up, and goes for a walk...he spies Ben sneaking into Wolfgang's house, and peeks through the window while they experiment with the sphere.

The rest plays out about the same, but there's an interesting scene where Heinlein (the mouse) says "I would like . . . to come out.", so Ben takes him out and tells Wolfgang to put the sphere around him. They try it for a second, but then Wolfgang, afraid of what the atmosphere inside the sphere might contain, turns it off.

No real significant differences in chapter four. Only major thing is that after Lori catches Ben peeking at her, he says that he was protecting her from a cat that was probably a witch in disguise, and she tells him that along with the rest of her class, Ben is invited to her birthday party, as well as his friend ("the guy who helped [him] take on Steve and those bullies").

Poor Wolfgang =/

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[–] Ozymandias-King-of-Kings 17 years ago

This is good. I'd forgotten all those little details (It's been a while since I read the book). Not all of those things would have been in the shooting script (novels are based on earlier drafts), but they would all have helped to flesh out the story.

Keep up the updates!

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[–] lordasaki 17 years ago

Yeah, I can tell why they left out some of the scenes...but a lot of stuff in here is pretty verbatim to the "final" film...besides the fact that even if they had gotten a chance to film everything, they still would've had to edit some of it out before release...not to mention those few scenes that were further edited for home video >_<

I do wonder how much of this actually WAS filmed...I'm very curious about what might possible have gone unfinished nearer the end, but I guess I'll find out when I get there.

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[–] lordasaki 17 years ago

Lots of new stuff, but most of it isn't very interesting.

Lots more dialogue.

Bringing the Tilt-a-Whirl seat home is a lot longer, but like I said, not very interesting. Only neat bit is when it rolls down the hill (from the original theatrical cut) it almost hits a police car, and the kids end up hiding in the bushes...Wolfgang ends up landing in the creek, covered in mud.

Curiously, they don't search the junkyard very long...they go straight to the back where the Tilt-a-Wirl is. No bits of Ben searching around and finding the masks and flashlights and stuff. This is the first major (sort of major) bit I've found that was in the movie but not in the book. In the book, they just end up using some old motorcycle helmets and things that Ben had laying around.

I might be getting this out of order, but there's a scene where they go to check on the Thunder Road and Ludwig (Wolfgang's little brother) is there, asking about it. He says he knows it's a space ship. Wolfgang says he'll tattle on him if he doesn't go home, but promises that he'll tell/show him everything later.

When they christen the Thunder Road with the beer bottle, it breaks just fine. This proves my theory that the bottle breaking after Ben gives up and chucks it was improvised ;)

One part I found very interesting, when they first start the Thunder Road, everything starts floating around. Wolfgang says he must have the gravity reversed, and inputs a command, and everything settles into place. I always wondered why Wolfgang floated around when first encapsulated, but Ben and the ship were fine.

Also, Wolfgang explains that since the computer and the power supply are inside the sphere, he has to plot the course relative to an imaginary point in space instead of relative to the computer. I guess that kind of goes without saying, but it's just another thing I had always wondered about.

Verrrry interesting, it turns out that the guy at the drive-in ("That's so fake, you can see the strings!") is in fact, Ben's older brother Bill =)

The scene where they bump into a police chopper is heavily extended. Turns out, the chopper wasn't there by chance, it was investigating the incident at the drive-in. After they take off, the cops chase them for a while, and even get the guys back at the station to track the ship by radar. I hope there's more stuff with Charlie Drake in here, I always really liked that aspect of the movie...the whole part about him having the same dreams as a kid. I guess it works fine as it is in the movie, but it'd be neat to have just a little bit more.

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[–] Ozymandias-King-of-Kings 17 years ago

I do wonder how much of this actually WAS filmed...I'm very curious about what might possible have gone unfinished nearer the end, but I guess I'll find out when I get there.

Well, we know for certain that some of the scenes made it in right up until the final stages because...

There is a photo of both the kiss between Ben and Lori at the party and the argument argument with Darren and Wolfgang afterwards in the storybook. There is also a photo of the kiss and Ben giving Lori the ring with a martian rock in the Starlog Explorer's Movie Magazine.

There is a photo of Ludwig (caught playing in the Thunder Road) and Darren before the last flight in the storybook, where (I believe) the guys decide to use him as a decoy for the agent looking for them.

Finally, there is a photo of Ben, Lori and the guys all smirking together at school (after Steve Jackson has run away) in the storybook. There is also the same shot, a shot of Lori leaning on Ben's shoulder and saying something to him, and one of Ben standing behind a metal bar with his arm around Lori saying something to her, all from the same scene in the Starlog Explorer's Movie Magazine.

Those are the biggest scenes in the novel that weren't in the film, and with the pictures it's pretty certain that they almost made it in.

Bringing the Tilt-a-Whirl seat home is a lot longer, but like I said, not very interesting. Only neat bit is when it rolls down the hill (from the original theatrical cut)

The theatrical cut was also released in Europe on video. Only America (it seems) had a chopped version released ('Special Home Video Version). I like the bit at the end, but to have that and not have the long walk to school or the elongated tilt-a-whirl seems like an unfair trade. Still, at least the US now has those scenes on the DVD. Unfortunately, they are also seperate on the UK DVD, so now both countries have an 'incomplete' version!

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[–] lordasaki 17 years ago

I'd love to see those photos if you know a place I can find them online. I almost bought the picturebook, but didn't have enough money.

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[–] sage80 16 years ago

Where can I see this supposed photo of Ben trying to kiss Lori?

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[–] Ozymandias-King-of-Kings 16 years ago

Where can I see this supposed photo of Ben trying to kiss Lori?

"Supposed"? Does that mean you doubt that it exists?

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[–] lordasaki 17 years ago

Wow.

First off, just a small change, Wolfgang doesn't reverse the coordinates to get the alien commands to bring them back home, he just reboots the computer and the aliens lose control, and he has it set so that if the computer reboots, it automatically takes them home. I'm not sure why he needed to reverse a diode to do this, but okay ;)

Now that that's out of the way...wow. The party scene is great, I'm hugely disappointed that it didn't make it into the film. Lori's disappointed because all the kids want to do is listen to the news and talk about the UFO at the drive-in. Darren's busy failing at hitting on chicks, Steve Jackson and his croonies are eating all the food and Steve's bragging about how he fought off the UFO with a mop. We find out that Lori doesn't really return Ben's feelings when she tells her friends she doesn't like him because he's too obsessed with being an astronaut. He works up the guts to give her a Martian rock replica ring and a kiss, and she turns him down. He tells Wolfgang he wants to die, and they have a huge fight. Right after this is the three-way dream.

Right after the dream, Ben and Wolfgang go to Darren's house and find him awake in his shed (for some reason, they're keeping the computer in there...I guess it's safer than just leaving it in the ship). They rig up the new circuit, and as in the movie, the blast of air blows the shed apart. Wolfgang ends up floating on top of the air blast...a neat effect, probably left out for budget reasons.

Right before take-off, when Charlie Drake shows up, Darren hops in Thunder Road and finds Ludwig inside. Wolfgang threatens to beat him up and he takes off...I'm guessing these must be the scene from the picture book. Not sure why it was even filmed, it seems rather trivial to me...maybe they just wanted to add a little bit more suspense to the scene.

No bits about Charlie having the same dreams as a kid =/ Oh well.

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[–] lordasaki 17 years ago

Got to the "encounter" =)

No huge changes here. I totally thought there would be, since in the credits, someone else is specifically credited for editing the space ship scenes.

There's a small scene between Ben getting a glimpse of Wak and then confronting him where Wolfgang meets Neek and they talk a bit.

There's a lot more dialogue from the aliens, and I'm gonna say maybe 99% of it is television quotes, even Neek, whereas in the movie, Neek hardly does any TV quotes at all. I'm guessing they changed it to make it much less confusing/annoying to audiences (though the extra-absurdness of it kind of made me laugh)...they probably didn't have legal rights to a lot of the quotes, either (or maybe you don't need copyright permission?). I know a lot of the quotes were from shows Paramount owns or owned, but that could've just been cooincidence...uh...sorry, I overspeculate sometimes ;)

Somewhat curious change, Wak gives Darren a rock with a button on it, and tells him to press it for a good time, when he has a lot of friends around. I thought this was the dreamstone ("the stuff dreams are made of"), but it's not, Neek gives that to Wolfgang. Ben gets nothing =( I can see why they changed that, I think he was disappointed enough as it is.

I'm very curious as to what the button rock is.

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[–] lordasaki 17 years ago

Oh yeah, just a side note, when Darren gives Wak the walkman, he tells him it's Bruce Springsteen. I always thought it was funny that in the movie he tells him it's "80's music", even though the movie is from the 80s.

Did we really call it '80s music even when it was brand new? o_O

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[–] lordasaki 17 years ago

Finished it off the other day, the ending's not much different.

When they crash land, the dream circuit gem thing is destroyed. Lori doesn't dream of them, but is awake and notices the ship going down. She gets up and watches, but doesn't confront them yet.

This might be in the wrong order, but there's a scene where Ben's parents tell him they've decided to let him go to space camp if he promises to pay for half of it. Ben half-heartedly agrees.

Scene where Steve Jackson gets a large gang together and tries to jump the trio, he steal's the button stone from Wolfgang and presses it. A green mist engulfs him and his clothes start to shrink into nothing, and he runs away. Lori finally confronts them and asks how their trip was.

Oh, the previously mentioned scene they had to overdub on the hillside isn't anything major, just a lot more dialogue. LOT more. Nothing really worth mentioning, just speculating whether or not the aliens'll call back.

The rest of it's about the same, except Ben's dream of the Thunder Road being intact (which may or may not be deleted depending on your region) takes place in his house instead of at school. He's in his bedroom and Drake comes on the TV and tells him to go downstairs, where he finds it in his livingroom, with Wolf (he changed his name) and Darren inside, and they talk for a bit and take off to the flying-through-clouds bit.

Well...I wanted to know what was unfinished, and now I know =)

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[–] dlcmdrx 16 years ago

where did you saw those scenes?

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[–] Ozymandias-King-of-Kings 16 years ago

He saw those scenes in the novelistion of the film (the book) which was based on the original script, so it had material that ended up being cut out.

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[–] moviebuffmel90 12 years ago

With the consideration of lost footage appearing in salt mines and areas of the studio (see Restoration of Little Shop of Horrors: Director's Cut to understand), you think there still is the possibility of this footage existing?

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