MovieChat Forums > The Emerald Forest (1985) Discussion > My Trip to Latin America...

My Trip to Latin America...


Well, I went on a trip, but not THE trip as I got wrapped up in where I landed! Of course, the best laid plans go awry... but it was sensational to say the least. To see the devastating poverty that exists in the Latin Americas as a result of American greed and capitalism... do any of us Americans truly know what we do to the rest of the world? I've seen villages devastated by American Corporations unfriendly eco practices... mining that pollutes the water and devastates an entire ecosystem that just derails the capability to live in a region where their ancestors have lived for thousands of years. By polluting the ground water, rivers, tributaries, soil, and deforesting -- american corporations have displaced communities one after the other. In Mexico, I found small groups of people, left behind after a mining operation became too expensive because of low return on minerals -- hundreds of local people who had once received up to $1 a day for slaving in dangerous mines all day were left high & dry when the american company pulled out and left -- these peoples who had lived there for centuries or relocated to the area for hopes of jobs were left with nothing, nothing but disease, non-potable water, and no way of farming or making a living. They basically live in extreme poverty while the american company left after making millions in profits. Was it worth destroying an entire regions livliehood? I think not?! In Columbia, the political environment is changing rapidly. The FARC who were notorious leftist guerillas and fighting for the right to assume control of their own country back from the rich military government are slowly laying down their arms and coming out of the jungles. Kidnapped foreigners are being returned after being gone for years. The drug trade is being laid open by the new government who has vowed to give up prosecution of the FARC members who were once viewed as terrorists, when they were simply fighting to regain control of the land, country, and home that was theirs and over taken by both the drug trade and foreign provicialists who laid waste to their natural ownership and property. In Peru, elections were coming up and the peoples were pushing to have an indigenous leader take over and instill socialistic principles to regain again their own lands, economy, and resources so ALL peruvians, whether Indian or Spanish descent could reap the benefits long controlled by foreign imperialists... Venezuela has Hugo Chavez who is inspiring distribution of national resources in the foreign market -- and redistributing the wealth back into his nation and for his peoples to better the society that has long been controlled by the corrupt wealthy -- no longer will he allow the distribution and reinvestment of wealth to the wealthy only -- his country and his people will reap the benefits of the oil and other natural resources Venezuela has to sell on the international market.

Is any of this perfect? Is any of this truly viable and will lead to success? I don't know -- but what I do know is that if you SAW & EXPERIENCED the outright poverty, prejudice, inequities, and corruption that exists in 3rd world countries as a direct result of the provincialism, imperialism, and capitalism that a broadened world economy has on the peoples that have been controlled and dictated to for years by the wealthy few -- then you would realize an amazing revolution is occurring in some of the poorest countries of the world.

It's finally time for those who have long suffered under the original Spanish, French, English, and American greed and need for control to take back what is theirs... the Amazon is devastated -- only luckily does so much land exist in the rain forest that what is left IS being protected and that means that there's a chance that the millions of unique species and peoples that exist will have a chance to thrive in their little corner left. It's not perfect, but it's gaining a slow down. The indians I did meet went from a perfect world in a forest/jungle with no outside intervention or need for goods and services that exist in capitalism. They were forced to believe that the way they lived was inappropriate and that since their land, resources, and way of living became impossible with the destruction that occurred, they now live in barrios and shacks grieving for their lack of money to purchase the basic necessities they were led to believe they could have if they left their homes. They are forced into becoming consumers of items they never needed before, and now believe they can't live without -- because they can't... they can't live in a barrio off the land. They live in barrios waiting for death because it's surely easier than the life they have now. Imagine growing up in a land that was clean, quiet, and free. Now, they are corralled in a dirty, disgusting, neighborhood where daily existence depends on the availability of a family member's thieving ability, government hand out, or the ability to escape violence from poor neighbors or the disease that you have no immunity to!

It's devastating, it's disgusting, and it's inhuman.

There's no way to change what we've done to these indigenous people. We've raped their land, their homes, their beliefs, their idealisms.

The only thing we can do is offer support back to these people through the provision of training, education, and support of indigenous businesses and opportunities they develop to semi-exploit their little bit of ancient skills, mysticism, and capablities -- it's their only way to make money NOW -- and as their governments evolve and we support as the Westerners who destroyed their lands, water, and living space -- ways to bring clean water, land, and NEW economically viable methods to support themselves and distribute the resources among themselves as their new socialistic governments are trying to do.

It's hopefully the first step to these people regaining control of their own lands and being able to reap the benefits themselves. What is left is the devastation we laid waste in our previous involvements with their natural resources... hopefully, they will be able to reinvent, reinvest, and regrow new ways to profit and regain power off the land that was always theirs to begin with -- and that they are finally regaining control of!

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Thanks man.
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We're talking about unchecked aggression here, dude.

http://imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=6221274

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Viva la revolution!

Take back the world from the corporations!

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Development of societies does not favor tribalism.

Most of today's nations were all tribes at one time and it took a great number of great men to put aside differences and form the nation state. A million people working together under one nation is much stronger then 1000 groups of a 1000 each developing their own cultures. As you saw in the movie, one attack by another tribe can wipe out a civilization and it's entire history in a matter of minutes. Also I have no doubt that indiginous people have been wiped out by non-man made disasters such as harsh seasons. I can't imagine living in a small clan where death and survival are something you have to risk and deal with every day. I like the civilizations we have built.

I know, you think it's cutesie to watch these little people act like animals. You think it's beautiful. You think they need to be "saved". I think your little brown friends would be quite disguested with you if they ever found out that your people had developed an extremely efficient form of hunting (ie going to the grocery store) while they are fighting for survival because the fish spawning wasn't as good this spring.

Also I have no doubt that if the earth were covered with 6 billion tribesmen, it would be a very bad place.

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it's a difference of opinion- and we are all entitled to it- i have worked corporate and non-profit and still- the best ways of life i have seen are where it is a matter of 'survival' as you call it day to day-

if we were a vast dispertion of indigenous tribes still, i do know the earth would look and feel vastly different as would all of life- just because the european/uk tribes rapidly advanced under monarchies does not mean that it was best for society- what did the french revolution prove? feudalism was and still is fought centuries later. look at the loss of native american life due to our own capitalism and 'forwarding' of society in NA... i don't see any of this as advantageous- none of it. True, i do appreciate the advances in science, especially infectious disease, but why did we have to do this? Because man created situations to allow the infection of mankind by misusing resources and creating inappropriate 'nations' that disregarded the basics of living- they allowed themselves to live in cesspools, overpopulated, growing, and with increased poverty- disregarding the care of lands, nature, and laws of mankind- we bought the degradation on ourselves....

there are two sides to every story- i don't think anyone needs to be saved at all; i believe ways of life need to be preserved so as to allow all who inhabit this planet to live according the methods they wish- and the encroachment of mankind on lands that NO ONE OWNS and staking claims to them, destroying them, and enforcing ways of life on tribal peoples does NOT solve any dilemnas in our advanced world- it only degrades ourselves- are we not all one people in the end? i don't see how barreling down trees and destroying thousands of years of ways of life is anything great in a technologically advancing society- I mean- are not the relics of mankind the most valued and treasured? The pyramids in Egypt & Mexico & Guatemala, Macchu Pichu in Peru, Stonehendge in the UK the great temples of India and Thailand, even the architechture of pre-colombian times in Europe such as Notre Dame & the Greek Islands - so many to list-- we are so intrigued with each and every archealogical find and it is something we as an advanced people look at and try to determine how such 'tribal' people were able to advance and complete such feats of human strength- and yes it was through the development of 'nations' but they were nations with far greater ideas and principles than we identify with now or are able to understand- what caused the losses of these people in these great archealogical find areas is beyond us now- we've lost idea of what happened- and it just could be that they themselves reached pinnacles in advancement only to collapse under the weight of their achievements- they over forested mined, farmed- all these things have been considered and weighed in when looking at peoples such as the Maya and Inca- but the true downfall occured when Europeans arrived- EVERYWHERE- the downfall was the arrival of a people with more 'technology' than the peoples they encountered - and i don't blame guns- it was not the guns that scared these people- it was the disease & way of life- the lack of respect for each other and the earth- that caused the fear to non-white people- and as for inter-warring and loss or wiping out of a tribes by another tribe- i think that this can be regarded through all of mankind for reasons logical- fighting over hunting lands or the ideology of man that still exists- to have the best for you and yours- to retain your genes- survival of the fittest- and you obviously hold the argument that we are the fittest so we deserve to have succeed to natural attrition and allow the loss of these tribal ways of life- and you are entitled to view the world as better now then by their standards of living- it is your ability to be logical and have that determination- but- not all people wish to see the loss of heritage and even 'technology' bases employed by these indigenous peoples- as it is our only view back into our own development as a society- it shows us our roots- our development- our growth as a species- and time and time again- i think the destruction or loss of any of the nations that once existed is directly related to the utter and ocmplete disregard for conservation, tolerance, and the destructions that new technologies add to a society as it develops- we may advance in one way but to the detriment of what other way of life? I mean, any advancement bought about loss- we may have been able to farm more efficiently, but we lost land viability- we lost land strength through erosion- there are so many arguments- mining nuclear power & its waste- all the toxic chemicals we have exploited only to find their damage to us and the environment later... look at asbestos!

Again, you are entitled to your opinion- but I am to mine as well- I only know that on any involvement with indigenous people- I feel no need to 'save' them, only to preserve their culture- i don't want my religious or spiritual beliefs to be forced upon them, i don't want my farming knowledge or disease knowledge employed here- i want them to continue to live in their little part of the world they are entitled to so as to allow them to continue to stay or advance in any way they see natural- employing what has already developed in society into their way of life doesn't save or help indigenous people- it destroys them- and i feel that this is a loss to us as humans because we lose what exists- just like losing a species in our environment- we as humans feel a loss- and it's an injustice to mankind to not preserve in some way- the land to allow these indigenous peoples to survive and live as they chose- it's not my way to say how to do this- i do wish that all corporations and nations that lay claim to lands under a country and claim they 'own' it because they paid a government monies for territory that is within their borders and do NOT pay heed to land, resources, animals, and peoples that already live within those territories- these corporations and nations come in, exploit the land for what they can, evict those who live there, and watch as the indigenous animals, people, and land go to waste- i for one am NOT an advocate of this ideology- no one should 'own' the undeveloped land of this planet- we should conserve what is left and allow nature to develop as it wishes- including the people, animals, and land that is there-

if someone came in today and said the land you live on is not yours- it is your states or national government's lands and you have 10 days to remove yourself and your family from it- would you not be upset? Would you not fight for the right to continue living where you are? If someone told you that you can no longer worship as you wish- your God is dead or that it doesn't exist- would you not fight in some way for the right to worship and live spirtually as you wish? If someone came to you today and said- here- I have this technological advance- use it, employ it as you see fit- even though we are not sure of the possible long term outcomes to you, yourself, your family, the environment- would you employ it or not? Most likely- you would- each and every new little technology that we think advances our lives becomes enigmatic in that it is a symbol of our development but more often than not- we disregard teh long term outcomes they have- Each society at it's time is at the height of technology- what you live in now- and each generation before us and to come- those alive are living at the height of their technological feats- but again- long term- what impacts have occurred? Do you think that nuclear weapons are a good thing? Just the nucelarn fall out alone - the consequences are devastating- because there is no way to carefully get rid of waste without it having long term implications on humans- even your cell phone and/or the internet- think- 10 years ago you had some sense of privacy- you could actually be unreachable by someone - an employer or just others - now? if you are found to be unreachable by an employer or client - you can be fired, lose your livlihood, and have dire financial consequences on yourself, family, and supposedly, society.

I don't know- i see all the benefits to the technology- I do- and again- I'm thankful that antibiotics and medical advancesments exist- truly I am- but I am truly able to look at the big picture- and develop my OWN logic and opinion- and interpret and live the way I feel by these thoughts and beliefs- and I unfortunately do NOT believe what you do or choose to interpret 'advances' in human society as you do- I see the positive and negative and choose to believe we need to do more to preserve our environment and lands to allow all humans to live as they choose- albiet without violence to extremes- only the violence that is needed to forward sustinence- and that is endlessly debatable- example- look at the suni, shiite and kurds- which faction of muslims is correct? obviously all- but to live in harmony? that is something that would be best done through tribal societies- and determination that they decide how to live on the land they have for centuries- let them decide how to live in harmony- it is possible without the overbearing involvment of federalistic facist movements- because nations say you 'have' to live a certain way and in a certain place- when it is not comprehensible to those who have and know they can survive other ways in teh lands they have for generations- allow them to determine the best way to live- why do we have to get involved, include guns and weapons, and push forward assaults... if we left it up to tribal societies and allowed their own resolution, their abilities to determine ways to live the way they wish? I think we'd see faster resolution adn less voilence then we see now- and our own american gi's could come home and live in peace-

i just want tolerance as well- you can believe what you wish- but wouldn't you be greatly involved if a loss of a species of animal was imminent? one which impacted your daily life? What if cows were about to go extinct? What about the scenarios above? if we could just allow ourselves to live and possible revert to some of the tribal society ways of living- maybe you would see some- SOME advancements in man that you were not considering- left to resolve problems people do it on their own- they actually do- without the intervention of the police or governments- we have lost so many freedoms- so many beliefs - religion exists to resolve man's debates over issues that he cannot understand- issues that have no scientific resolution- what is the 'right' way to live? What is the best 'way' to continue living? Should our society's advances overshadow and make extinct other benefits or ways or animals or plants or humans in any part of the world just for a 'better society'? This is without consideration of what truly those indigenous societies can bring to our society- we base it on overt impressions- not with true indepth analysis- looking back we can determine how we treated the north american indians was completely wrong and disrespectful- we know now what we lost in those cultures- and look now with respect on their cultures but refuse in our hearts and minds any guilt- the civil rights movement happened for a reason- we all know now how bad slavery truly is/was- all these things we see that maybe we considered them advancements then- when in reality- they were things that were degradations to man-

eh- it is an argument with you i will never win- you believe what you believe and choose your view- and I respect that- i do- i just see a greater loss in your advancements of society- for every three steps forward, there are two steps back... we have grown technologically and materially over thousands of years- your grocery store vs hunting argument- well, maybe they exist but how many go hungry each day bc they can't afford what is in the grocery store, but could self sustain through hunting or farming on their own if allowed to live in land that would sustain them? There are arguments abound on this- but i feel ownership has destroyed us- materialism has grown- yes we've advanced- but you see the cotton gin that revolutionized industry around the world- and it was only through this advancement that we at some point questioned the employment of men as slaves- our technology was way ahead of our morality and ethics- when our morality and ethics logically reviewed our treatment of others- we changed- again, technology was ahead of the long term outcomes- how much more now is ethics employed with business and science? We know now that we NEED to have these considerstions for long term success... morals and ethics do impact our society growth- often they are the easiesr to not consider or weigh in- but post facto- we always see - hindsight is 20/20...

have your opinion and live as you believe- there is nothing wrong in that- but think too of others who do not live at the same technological level as we do and ask yourself do you think you should 'save' others on this planet and allow them access to the same technological society you live in? Is this best for all humans? if it is- why didn't we already employ these technologies to ALL peoples because it is best? Was it economic or simply emotional? What should we do as a society so ALL live to the same level? That is socialism my friend- and against our American way- but do you find it fair that anywhere within a 500 mile radius of you in NA that most likely someone is starving or unable to support their family due to unequal access to education, environment, or employment? Is that fair? What would you do to ensure others are entitled to and have access to education so as to allow them to be employed in todays super global society and advanced technologically society? Are they wards of hte state or to be left alone to fend for themselves? How do you see the have nots? What is your view here? Just curious- I feel if forced to live in these confines of a government, then I want my tax dollars to go to buy food for my poor neighbors vs a giant armored military vehichle... i want to see the population in my technologically advanced society support its entire weight- not just that of who can harness the technology- we are quickly becoming a mix of rich and poor in the US- no middle class- and education has out priced so many- we become further elitist and lose out on many great potential scientists that could technology advance society as you see fit and wish for- just the implications are intertwined in my mind- completely- and i don't see how you justify our society when so many live unjustified daily-

again, i respect your opinion- i do- i just wish if you believed in it, you'd support it actively than passively so as to support all members of it- how? I don't know- i just know that in my 37 years I've seen much poverty that I wish was nto in existence because we could take care of it through our advances and if not- then what good is any of the advancements in our technology based society?

I think if we allow for preservation of land which leads to preservation of species of life and environment- then we shall see a greater advancement overall in society- that advancement of humanity which is needed so desperately in all parts of the planet-

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