Hi again Saarvardi. It is good to talk to an actual Israeli and someone who is knowledgeable about the subject.
Anyway, I somewhat contest with the idea that there is blood on the hands of every person living. I don't find it morally justifiable that people living today are responsible for what their ancestors did, even if they reap the benefits of their actions. You're right in that is how the world works, but I think the purpose of the modern age is to move away from that mindset and to not repeat history by forcing people to abide by your rules.
I also do believe that the Palestinians have as much a claim of heritage to the land of Palestine as the Israelis. To me, they are both indigenous. The Philistines and the Israelites both mingled together circa 1100 BC, after the arrival of the Canaanites and the fall of the Bronze Age. As time wore on, the Israelis were subjected to a lot of persecution, being forced to flee from their homes and travel across the world as nomads. I agree that their persecution throughout history is a horrible thing, and that they never had a nation to call their own. But then again, neither do the Roma.
the Palestinians to compromise in even the most "slightest" matters, such as recognizing Israel's right to exist (that means that technically, they want me dead).
Not entirely true. Like any group, there are different sects. Those willing to compromise, and those unwilling. Hamas, for example, came to power thanks to majority vote, and defeated Fatah and the PLO in 2006. They offered Israel a 10 year truce agreement in exchange for withdrawal of Israeli territories from West Bank and East Jerusalem. Which was the original terms of the Oslo Accords in 1993, which have never been finalized.
In the Gaza strip (which was evacuated of all Israeli presence back in '05, and in '07 taken in a military uprising by Hamas)
This is true, Gaza was mostly evacuated of an economically nonviable area of 1.2 million Palestinians that is of little use to Israel. This is to distract the Palestinians with the promise of a sovereign nation while they concentrate on swallowing up the West Bank in Jewish Settlements.
led by the extremist Hamas movement, which in the 90's and 2000's was responsible for recurring attacks against Israeli civilians.
Mostly because Rabin was a assassinated by Jewish extremists, in an effort to sabotage the peace process. As a result, Netenyahu of a right wing party came to power (an extremist in his own right) and turned Arafat and the PLO into scapegoats for the bombings perpetuated because of occupied Palestinians.
In the West Bank, the more moderate PLO has control over the population. Both people have elected officials, they have ministers and priminister (Ismail Hanya in Gaza, Mahmud Abbas in the West Bank). These goverments collect tax, they operate a local police force, are responsible for education and infrastructure, hold overseas embassies and have representitives all over the world - and basically function like a state, only they are not called one as of yet.
11%!!!!! Only 11% of the Palestinian Authority actually control the West Bank. The rest is Israeli occupied. And this is still after the IDF steamrolled into their headquarters in 2001 and reconquered most of the West Bank, imprisoning Arafat in his own home. Doesn't sound so generous to me, or like much of a sovereign state.
The 1993 Oslo accords called for the resettlement of Israelis from Jericho, West Bank, even though it is still occupied by Israel.
So to state that Israel has control over the Gaza strip is ignorance at its worst - we do not want the control the Hamas led strip as much as they don't want to be controlled by us.
Israel OCCUPIES Gaza Strip, according to the UN and most US government websites.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/06/israel.gaza.occupation.quest ion/
In fact, Israel has created an entire embargo on the Gaza Strip, as long as the democratically elected Hamas party is in power. Which is destorying their infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc. Not to mention Israel bombs and invades Gaza on a yearly basis. It is such a wonder as to why they keep firing rockets at Israel.
. The West Bank does in fact have a "problem" of Jewish settlements. To order the evacuation of these is atrocious in my mind. I think the big masses of cities will eventually stay part of Israel, in exchange of a lesser populated area to be given to the Palestinians. The smaller ones, who are deep inside the West Bank, may (as far as i'm concerned) be part of the future Palestinian state. If its OK for Israel to exist with 1.5 million Muslim Arabs, I think Palestine can exist with a few thousand Jews. Otherwise, THAT would be Appertheid (sorry for the typo).
The problem is that these Jewish settlements are illegal under international law,
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=41329&Cr=palestin& ; ; ; ;Cr1#.UtCuJPRDuSoin what is supposed to be a "sovereign Palestinian state". You have a problem with them being evacuated from the West Bank, but apparently have no problem with thousands of indigenous Palestinian arabs being evacuated from their homes in Israel, such as the Bedouin? The Oslo Accords, as well as the 2003 Roadmap to Peace, called for expansion of Palestinian control over the West bank, and yet most of it was reconquered by Israel after a slew of suicide bombings which Yasser Arafat had no control over. And still today, Israeli settlements continue to grow into the West Bank, and Palestinian control continues to shrink. It is certainly not as black and white as you paint it.
East Jerusalem is occupied by Israel, and yet is supposed to be under Palestinian Authority. But no, Israel continues to expand and strip Palestinians of their right to residency.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8390717.stm The problem is that Israel has refused to compromise with the Palestinian control over the West Bank that was established in the Oslo Accords and the Road Map for Peace.
About the Second Intifada, you wrote "It was mostly caused by young boys throwing stones at Israeli police, who were then killed with lethal ammunition". This is a big fat lie, and comes to show how people are misinformed. The Second Initifada was led by militant Terror Organizations such as Hamas and the Islamic Jihad. It was not caused by "young boys", but by well trained terrorist, who penetrated Israeli and bombed themselves near synagogues, restaurants, schools, etc. Countless Israelis died while trying to live their day-to-day lives, only because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Unfortunately, what you just wrote was a lie as well. The Second Intifadah was certainly involved with escalated violence between Israeli/Palestinian clashes, but it was NOT CAUSED by Hamas or the myth of Islamic Jihad. It was caused when Ariel Sharon marched into the Temple Mount with 1000 security guards, seen as a provocation of the Israeli occupation of East Jerusalem and the West Bank, of which Israel had still not withdrawn 7 years after the Oslo Accords.
Six years after the agreement, there were more Israeli settlements, less freedom of movement, and worse economic conditions. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jul/20/commentWhat began as a few hundred protesters throwing shoes at Sharon's police escort following prayers at al-Aqsa mosque had within hours erupted into demonstrations across the Palestinian territories, with chants of "we want an intifada".
The following day, September 29, Israeli forces opened fire on crowds of unarmed demonstrators in al-Aqsa compound, killing seven and wounding more than 100. "People are being massacred! Bring the ambulances," echoed from the mosque's loudspeakers.
Demonstrations raged throughout the West Bank and Gaza. Israeli forces repeatedly met the stone-throwing crowds with live ammunition.http://www.aljazeera.com/photo_galleries/middleeast/201010313211587225 6.html
It was Israelis killing protestors with lethal ammunition that sparked the violence.
There wan no Palestinian state in Israel before 1948. There never was. The Palestine which existed was "a geopolitical entity under British administration, carved out of Ottoman Southern Syria after World War I" (source: wiki).
No, and neither was there a Jewish one. But there was a majority of Palestinian people living in Palestine for many generations. Who have been forced to flee thanks to war, eviction, and persecution. How can the Jews lay claim to the land and not the Palestinians? They both have equal claim in my eyes.
ere's how famed author Mark Twain described the country way back in 1867 (evidence that there never was a flourishing Palestinian state, and that in fact their national feeling were only fueled by the ones the Jewish people bought with them back to the region):
“….. A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds… a silent mournful expanse…. a desolation…. we never saw a human being on the whole route…. hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.”
I can assure you, Israel is 90% reliant on foreign aid, mostly from the USA's annual 5 billion dollar supplement they provide.
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Bottom Line, I can see why you feel that the Palestinians are at fault. There have been successful and unsuccessful peace negotiations throughout, that have been marred by sectarian violence and misfortune on both sides of the conflict. There are people, Israeli and Palestinian, that wish to see the peace process fail. The core issues are this:
1) Full Israeli withdrawal from West Bank and East Jerusalem.
2) Full withdrawal of Israeli embargo upon Gaza Strip (embargoing an extremist party will not bring peace, if you really want it).
3) Full right of return for all Palestinian refugees.
As it is, I find Israeli Government to be mostly hypocritical in their "quest for peace and two state solution" as even today they are planning to build more settlements in West Bank and continue to bomb Gaza on a weekly basis. Israel is supposed to be on the moral highground here, so why do they continue to persecute the Palestinians? They even persecute their own, and use the memories of the Holocaust as justification for their theocratic, apartheid state. After all
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4337304,00.html.
Try not to be swept up in the nationalistic cry. History is repeating itself.
Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.
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chuggliams
11 years ago
You should watch 'The Law in these Parts'- it's
a brilliant film. It's also depressing
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CynE007
11 years ago
Why do you white people want to read the Color Purple anyway???
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scorpiascorpio
9 years ago
Why not? Are white people not allowed to read a fictional about black characters set in an era where blacks were disenfranchised..?
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