I don't think it's fair to single Tygra out in cases like Mongor, Queen Of Eight Legs or Safari Joe, where Panthro and Cheetara came off just as bad. Trouble With Time is also unfair, as none of them had heard of the Cave Of Time at this point.
Every now and then, someone on this board will single out Tygra or Cheetara as being "easily captured", but will usually list episodes where all the characters were captured.
You could just as easily argue Panthro was pathetic for crashing the Thundertank in Dream Master, or for having his mind taken over so easily in The Mumm-Ra Berbil (which again had all the Thundercats thus taken over), or even against the Brute Men in The Slaves Of Castle Plun-Darr.
The fault does not lie with Tygra, or Cheetara, or any individual characters, but with the Lion-O-centric nature of so many storylines. The fact that it's Lion-O with the catchphrase. That's what bugs me. Especially as the Sword responds to Willa in The Garden Of Delights - in which case, why didn't it work in The Shifter until the switched Lion-O and Wilykat joined forces? On the same logic, it would have made for an interesting change if, in Queen Of Eight Legs, Tygra had used the catchphrase and Lion-O, Panthro and Cheetara then got the strength to break free - which is what happened when Lion-O used it.
Which brings me to another gripe with the Sword - it's in episodes like Queen Of Eight Legs, Mechanical Plague and Tight Squeeze, not to mention Return To Thundera and The Super-Power Potion, where the catchphrase has a miraculous effect on the Thundercats, by which they are suddenly able to overcome obstacles that a moment before were insurmountable. For this reason, Mongor and Safari Joe score high marks because the others can't respond to it. And why Return To Thundera is dodgy because it restores them from being statues.
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superturbo4
15 years ago
Agreed!
Which is why while i like thundercats they kinda like were too dependent on each other. Great as a team but except for Lion-O the principal character of the show, the Thundercats work best as a team. While in retrospect in master of the universe (both 1983 and 2002 incarnations) the Masters work just as well on solo missions as they do as a team. The series tried to promote teamwork for all the kids out there, which is good. But i've always said it pays to be an individual as well and we needed to see the Thundercats opereate just as well on their own which is why it lacked in other areas, the writers should've thought some of the Thundercats seperate character development traits and adventures out much better, only Lion-O benefited cos he was the focus of the series and his growing leadership from hierditary but inexperienced leader to being the true 'Lord Of The Thundercats', was the main storyarc of the entire series.
If they ever get around to doing that CGI T-Cats movie or a brand new animated series, i'd like to see stories where their strengths as individuals is emphasizes moreso, since being a close nit team would always be their greatest asset.
ST4
Spill.com Reviews ROTF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9LAXNzrOvc&feature=related
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LiamABC
15 years ago
That's why I always sing the praises of the episode "Divide And Conquer" - it breaks away from the Lion-O-centric nature of the show better than any other episode. Reason being as follows:
The Mutants land all the Thundercats except Lion-O in various predicaments:
- The Thunderkittens are trapped in the Vortex
- Cheetara is stuck up to her neck in honey facing attacks from a giant bee
- Tygra is caught in an underground cavern fighting a Giantaur
- Panthro is captured by the Mutants and imprisoned in Castle Plundarr
However, the matter of escaping from these predicaments is a little more even handed:
- The Thunderkittens get themselves out of the Vortex without help from anyone
- Tygra bamboozles the Giantaur and escapes from his incarceration on his own
Cheetara and Panthro still have to be rescued, and notably it's Tygra who rescues Cheetara, and not Lion-O. The five of them all team up to rescue Panthro.
A more realistic mix of predicaments to escape from, some of them could get out of their own messes, others needed to be rescued.
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whaledogs911
15 years ago
Tygra did rescued Cheetara in Divide And Conquer. But tygra DIDNOT rescued Cheetara against Safari Joe. I guess tygra forgot how to turn invisble against Joe.
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mmablaster
15 years ago
I always thought Tygra was the lamest Thundercat, other than the two kids, pretty sure their names were Wilykit and Wilycat. Panthro, Lion-o, Cheetara then Schnarf were awesome.
*Mumra was the best cartoon villian.
http://coolblaster.blogspot.com/
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superturbo4
15 years ago
Nope, Tygra was always awesome!
While they work best as a team, each possesses 'Exaggerated Paranormal' abilites of big/wild cats?!
Panthro = Strength, Cheetara = Speed, Tygra = Invisibiity, Wilykat & Wilykit = Cunning-ness, agilty. And later came the new Thundercats; Pumyra = Leaping ability, Lynx-O = acute senses (akin to Marvel comics 'Daredevil' because he was blind) Bengali = ? difficult to classify don't think he was ever had any Cat abilities that were exaggerated somewhat?
Thundercat sorceress 'Jaguara' = Sorcery/Magic (doesn't count though?).
Jaga and Lion-O are the only possible exceptions where they simply have more mental attributes like; Leadership qualities and combined battle tactics/fighting ability strategy etc. Although Lion-O strength nearly rivals Panthro's though. Snarf takes up the challenge explains and puts and qualifies the Thundercats abilities (via flashback) on any scale through descriptions too. If anybody was lame, gotta admit it was Bengali was as i stated above wasn't truly given anything to make him standout as a cat. Instead of making him out to be a blue version of tygra, they should've made him a young but arrogant Thundercat with an attitude problem who kinda was jealous of Lion-O somewhat?
I mean, if your main weapon of choice is a 'Hammer' and your a "Blacksmith"? Then you certainly need the badass attitude to go with it all! Along with Panthro's short temperment, might've given the Thundercats even more kickass characters in their group, and had a few realistics rivalies going on.
Its always been said its unrealistic that they hardly argued unless the Thundercats were tricked by the Mutants or Mumm-Ra or under a 'magical spell' of somekind.
Mumra was the best cartoon villian.
Agreed! Even by today's standards its surprising that Mumm-Ra even got pass the censors cos of how intimidating he looked like. In a era that had Skeletor in MOTU with a floating skull, Mumm-Ra was even more badass looking and well animated compared to filmation's MOTU.
ST4
Spill.com Reviews ROTF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9LAXNzrOvc&feature=related
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LiamABC
15 years ago
"Tygra did rescued Cheetara in Divide And Conquer. But tygra DIDNOT rescued Cheetara against Safari Joe. I guess tygra forgot how to turn invisble against Joe."
Like I've said before, the fault here, like in "Mongor" and so many other episodes, lies not with Tygra but with the Lion-O-centric format of the show. At least in "Safari Joe" and "Mongor", the imprisoned Thundercats were unable to come to Lion-O's aid when he summoned them.
I'm sick of people taking out the format problem on an individual character. It's usually Tygra or Cheetara, but try this one for size - Panthro is a much bigger wuss because in both the above episodes, he starts off IN THE THUNDERTANK but is STILL CAPTURED WITH EASE. Same happens in "The Super-Power Potion" and "Dream Master".
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whaledogs911
15 years ago
Your right LiamABC, Safari Joe can't beat tygra if tygra turns invisble the same goes for lynxana. You can't beat tygra if you can't see him. Lion-o had to save the day NOT tygra.
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DarthBill
15 years ago
I remember reading that the shows writers actually did genuinely dislike Tygra, or at the very least Leonard Starr disliked Tygra; apparently he thought Tygra was "boring", and this is why Tygra was basically left stranded on 3rd Earth during the final season, not even to be included in the series finale, which, regardless of personal bias, is still a douche-y thing to do to a character who was part of your primary cast. Why any of them would feel that way I don't know. I guess maybe they saw Tygra as "the boyscout" of the Thundercats and dismissed him as "boring" on those grounds compared to the wisecracking Panthro & struggling young leader Lion-O? If that was the case it's a shame. It's that kind of thinking that blindsides other heroes like Superman & Cyclops when juxtaposed with the rightly or wrongly more popular Batman & Wolverine.
But as was pointed out before, all the Thundercats suffered embarrassing defeats or captures at various points in the series, partly because of the Lion-O-centric format of the series. As for some of Panthro's embarrassing losses, that could be attributed to the fact that back in the 80s you couldn't do the kind of knock down drag out fights that they get away with now. As much as I like the show, the 9 out of 10 of the "fights"/"action scenes" look kind of stilted now. Sometimes a modest fight scene can appear more "epic" or "intense" if you at least have a decent amount of sympathy invested in the characters, but that's a whole other argument.
I like to thing some of these issues could be resolved better if the show were being made today, assuming you had the right creative team behind it. I like to think they'd power down what the Sword of Omens can do & streamline it into something more manageable & not rely on it like a crutch. I've seen lots of complaints of how overly reliant Lion-O was on the sword, which in and of itself could make for interesting writing today, whether or not he fears the connection between himself & the sword. And hopefully the endless capturings would be less embarrassing.
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superturbo4
15 years ago
Great to see you around darthbill, missed your commentary on threads around here!
I've seen lots of complaints of how overly reliant Lion-O was on the sword, which in and of itself could make for interesting writing today, whether or not he fears the connection between himself & the sword. And hopefully the endless capturings would be less embarrassing.
Probably why the anointment trials were seen as the best storyarc for Lion-O and ThunderCats overall. And his battle with Mumm-Ra in part 5 of the ThunderCubs in season 2 as his best knockdown dragout fight they had. The one in 'Book of Omens' was kind of embarassing for Mumm-Ra by comparison surely.
But as was pointed out before, all the Thundercats suffered embarrassing defeats or captures at various points in the series, partly because of the Lion-O-centric format of the series. As for some of Panthro's embarrassing losses, that could be attributed to the fact that back in the 80s you couldn't do the kind of knock down drag out fights that they get away with now. As much as I like the show, the 9 out of 10 of the "fights"/"action scenes" look kind of stilted now.
True, but gladly ThunderCats was so well animated that its one of the few 80's shows where it still hold's up well enough today as well. Not many of its 80's counterparts shows can say the same thing.
ST4
Spill.com Reviews ROTF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9LAXNzrOvc&feature=related
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DarthBill
15 years ago
Great to see you around darthbill, missed your commentary on threads around here!
[]
Hey Turbo. Things have been kind of slow around here. But at least it's not cluttered with the kind of crap that undermines the integrity of the Dark Knight forums.
Probably why the anointment trials were seen as the best storyarc for Lion-O and ThunderCats overall. And his battle with Mumm-Ra in part 5 of the ThunderCubs in season 2 as his best knockdown dragout fight they had. The one in 'Book of Omens' was kind of embarassing for Mumm-Ra by comparison surely.
More embarrassing than being whacked in the shin by Snarf? []
True, but gladly ThunderCats was so well animated that its one of the few 80's shows where it still hold's up well enough today as well. Not many of its 80's counterparts shows can say the same thing.
Well, even Thundercats had a few episodes were the animation was kinda clunky. Remember "The Super Power Potion"? My God that episode was painful to look at. Episode 3, can't remember it's title right now, where they met the Berbils/Robear-Berbils (eh, sorry, haven't watched the show in a while, my terminology isn't as strong as it may have been back in 2001) wasn't too good either. And then there were eps where the animation would vary, looking really beautiful & dynamic in one scene & then noticeably less so in a later scene. I think this became less and less of a problem as the series went on though, since later episodes feature consistently strong animation as opposed to some of the season 1 episodes.
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15 years ago
[deleted]
DarthBill
14 years ago
Oh yeah, the one with the Keystone where we actually saw him waste away & suffer weight loss was pretty chilling stuff, especially for a kids show in the 80s.
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