MovieChat Forums > The Neverending Story (1984) Discussion > Overly complex plot for kids to follow

Overly complex plot for kids to follow


The protagonist is muddy. Is it the boy or is it Arteyu?
The antagonist is even harder. "The Nothing" is a hard concept to get your head around, then there is the wolf. Is he part of the nothing or what?

As a child I never could follow what was happening.

I think "the nothing" should have been personified by a baddie. Easier to follow.

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The protagonist is muddy. Is it the boy or is it Arteyu?


Both. Though Sebastian is more of the audience surrogate.

then there is the wolf. Is he part of the nothing or what?


He serves the power behind the nothing. He specifically says so.

I think "the nothing" should have been personified by a baddie. Easier to follow.


Then that defeats the purpose of "nothing" to actually have something.

I followed it just fine as a child.

Can't stop the signal.

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Well said! Lots of young children like the movie a lot, even though they may not understand it all. It's a good idea for parents to watch this together with their kids, and discuss it afterwards.

You can read Common Sense Media on the subject:

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/movie-reviews/the-neverending-story/user-reviews/adult#

And their advisory:

Families can talk about whether a fantasy tale can be compelling without being scary.

Families can also discuss the value of reading books, and how they can almost transport someone into another world. In the movie, that fantasy becomes a reality -- a distinction parents may wish to point out.

They may also discuss a lesson from Bastian's father, who warns the young boy not to become overly caught up with his imagination. Are there times when kids' heads should indeed be in the clouds?

Please stop dumbing down plots for children and turning the world into a place where Nickelodeon is the norm, because a single child may complain that they "don't get it". The world isn't simple. You can't spot heroes by them being handsome and wearing white, and villains looking monstrous and black - as it is, the movie makes this clear enough, because Atreyu does look noble, thoughtful and caring, and the Gmork scary and evil.

Most of all, it's based on a book, a very popular one at that, which is about three times as complex and dark as the movie!

You can't simply throw out a lot of the plot and complexity of the book and still pretend it's the story.

Dicky

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Sebastian is more of the audience surrogate.


I don't agree. Sebastian is far too much of a wuss to be an audience surrogate, unless the audience consists 100% of wusses.

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No, but he is a child. And a large portion of the audience was children.

Besides, audience surrogate doesn't just mean he's an expy for the audience or that the audience identifies itself with it 100%.

An audience surrogate is also someone who is the point of view character, learning things at the same time as the audience or asking questions the audience would.

Sebastian fills that role.

Can't stop the signal.

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but he is a child. And a large portion of the audience was children.


Sure, but IMO that's not enough to make him an audience surrogate.

I can see how Atreyu could be an audience surrogate. But Bastian...ugh.

learning things at the same time as the audience or asking questions the audience would.


But he never asked the questions that I, as a member of the audience, always asked, like:

Why is Bastian such a wuss?

When is Bastian going to stop being a wuss?

Why is Bastian too stupid and/or cowardly to take the advice of people who are older and smarter than him (like the man who tells him to punch his bullies in the nose)?

Why did the film end by condemning Bastian to live the horrible life of a wuss forever, by taking away the one and only thing - his magical powers - that allowed him to escape the troubles that follow him because he is a wuss?

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Good advice? Just beat up three bigger kids (or try to, anyway).

When's Bastian going to realize what an easy world this is--you can jut win fights whenever you want to. It's all so simple.

____________________
The story is king.

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Well, Bastian definitely should have hit the gym and/or dojo too in order to increase his chances of winning.

But even so, punching the bullies in the nose isn't a matter of winning or losing. Winning or losing the fight is beside the point.

It's a matter of him standing up for himself and being a man. As long as he does that, he wins - even if he "loses."

To wit, even if they beat the crap out of him after he punched them, he still should have went right ahead and punched them anyway. Then he would have still had his dignity, which is worth far more than is avoiding physical pain by running away like a coward.


When's Bastian going to realize what an easy world this is--you can jut win fights whenever you want to. It's all so simple.


Ironically, that is exactly what this movie taught Bastian at the end: he can win fights whenever he wants to because the world is so simple that he can simply wish away his problems with magic! But a few year later, this sadistic movie also took away that power from Bastian even though (since he is determined to be a coward), that power was the only thing that could save Bastian from himself. Thus, the movie left Bastian doomed.

Whereas if Bastian had instead learned to solve real-world problems with real-world solutions that won't be taken away from him like his magic was - i.e. if Bastian had taken the man's advice to punch the bullies - he would not be forever doomed.

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Sure, but IMO that's not enough to make him an audience surrogate.


Exactly, which is why I didn't leave it at that and made sure to explain what the audience surrogate is:

"An audience surrogate is also someone who is the point of view character, learning things at the same time as the audience or asking questions the audience would."

That fits Bastion perfectly.

I can see how Atreyu could be an audience surrogate.


Sure. Had it not been for the presence of Bastion.

But he never asked the questions that I, as a member of the audience, always asked, like:


Because the movie wasn't made specifically for you. Plus, the audience surrogate doesn't necessarily ask questions he already knows the answers to.

Why is Bastian such a wuss?

When is Bastian going to stop being a wuss?

Why is Bastian too stupid and/or cowardly to take the advice of people who are older and smarter than him (like the man who tells him to punch his bullies in the nose)?


 Yes. Why would a small child be afraid of a three bigger, older bullies.

Why did the film end by condemning Bastian to live the horrible life of a wuss forever, by taking away the one and only thing - his magical powers - that allowed him to escape the troubles that follow him because he is a wuss?


Didn't actually watch the ending, huh?

Can't stop the signal.

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His name is Bastian. Not Sebastian.

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Ha. You're right. I'm an idiot.

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^^^ THANK YOU shaunodead! By the end of reading the first page of this thread it was really starting to grind my gears that nobody had corrected that! 😁

"Equal rights for everybody, special treatment for NO ONE!"

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It's not hard to understand at all :s

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As a kid I liked a lot this movie and I was able to understand it very well. I don't see what is so complicated about the plot.

One of the reasons why so many kids movies from the recent years had been so bad is because many adults underestimate children and think they need to be talked down all the time in the most condescending manner.

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Maybe for some kids. Good points, though.



Hey there, Johnny Boy, I hope you fry!

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I think so.

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I saw it in the eighties, being about 10. I remember being impressed about the visuals, especially the Stone Eater who looked very scary but, strangely, was not evil at all. Now I just watched it again, at 40. I must say that it was deeper than I expected. I remembered from the previous time that the boy somehow interferes with the fantasy land, but all that philosophical stuff about the story within the story came as a surprise to me now. I guess it means that I didn't understand it as a kid.

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This is one of the first movies I ever saw and I followed it fine.

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It's easy to follow, maybe you have no imagination???

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I saw this movie when I was 8 or 9, can't recall, but I didn't have any problem understanding it.

"I'd like to keep Spike as my pet"- Illyria, Angel S. 5

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I saw this movie when I was on super heavy epilepsy meds which they no longer give to kids--and I was able to still follow along. Kids are underestimated big time.

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