This movie is racist!!!!
Did they really have to make fun of Asians in such a distasteful way?
Show me the holes!
Why don't you ask the Asian actor who played the character?
Crawl back under your bridge, troll.
MovieChat Forums > Sixteen Candles (1984) Discussion > This movie is racist!!!!
Unless you grew up in the 80s, you wouldn't understand. There was a large influx of Asian culture into the "new wave" of 80s (Japanese character letters, songs, clothes). The movie was simply a reflection of that.
shareUnless you grew up in the 80s, you wouldn't understand. There was a large influx of Asian culture into the "new wave" of 80s (Japanese character letters, songs, clothes). The movie was simply a reflection of that.
Exactly.
Heck, there were scenes/roles with Asian stereotypes like this, before then. Watch "Rosemary's Baby".
"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush." share
Unless you grew up in the 80s, you wouldn't understand. There was a large influx of Asian culture into the "new wave" of 80s (Japanese character letters, songs, clothes). The movie was simply a reflection of that.Not only that but people weren't so thin skinned and hyper sensitive in the 1980s. Now days we have a large portion of society that are so uptight they can't seem to differentiate between harmless jokes and humor and actual racism. Make one silly joke about slant eyed drivers or something and they act like you disparaged the entire Asian race.
What are words for when no one listens anymore share
I really enjoyed this movie, and I think it's a very good one. Most of the jokes in the movie were harmless, except when Grandma Dorothy kicked Dong in his gut.
Think of it. This was the same old lady that took Dong in her house, let him do all the chores as if he was their house maid, and then decided it's completely alright to kick him in the gut. It was even worse, because in the 80s there weren't a lot of violence-related jokes as it is nowadays.
One of the many potential impressions that could come across the younger audience was that it's alright to kick people of Asian descent because it's funny.
I think a lot of people today are so afraid of being labelled politically correct that they would rather be apathetic instead of trying to do what's fair and right. Remember that when you're worried about being called PC, you're only thinking of yourself. We need more people like Atticus Finch, who dares to risk himself to defend innocent victims.
Not only that but people weren't so thin skinned and hyper sensitive in the 1980s.Actually, people nowadays are more thick skinned than people in the 80s. Back then, if someone says something rude about someone else's mother, for example, they'd get smacked hard. But today, everyone has at least received insults about their mother once or twice without getting offended anymore. It's just that today we have more people who are more open about their opinion in public, plus we have more channels to express those opinions. That's why it seems like we have more people who have complaints about everything.
But it doesn't mean that that's a bad thing. We do need to keep our sense of humour checked. I'm a strong believer that to be funny you don't need to burn or demean other people. We have endless possibilities to come up with funny stories that don't involve racial stereotypes, or violent things.
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> Actually, people nowadays are more thick skinned than people in the 80s.
No way. Watch any movie from 25 or more years ago you'll notice yourself saying every few minutes, "No movie could get away with saying THAT today!" The PC police are everywhere these days and movie makers self-censor themselves so that the studio doesn't get tons of complaints from an insensitive joke or two.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
No way. Watch any movie from 25 or more years ago you'll notice yourself saying every few minutes, "No movie could get away with saying THAT today!"I have watched many many movies from 25 or more years ago. No, I did not find myself saying "No movie could get away with saying THAT today!". In fact, I feel quite the opposite.
I still think people nowadays are more afraid of being called overly sensitive than actually being offended. Which isn't better than before, just more hypocritical. share
> I still think people nowadays are more afraid of being called overly sensitive than actually being offended.
This is the era of "the one outweighs the many". Movie studios are deathly afraid of just one person complaining about their movie, so they remove most things that aren't PC and aren't approved by the lawyers. The vast majority of movie-goers that could handle a little non-PC stuff are forced to do without, so that the one complainer can't complain.
So, you just can't make a mainstream movie today where the Asian character is named, "Long Duk Dong." No studio lawyer is gonna let that happen.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
I don't agree. Movie studios actually go with what their marketing research would say, and of course, some legal considerations.
But, here's a show made in 2015 which has an Asian character named Dong in it. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3339966/
There were more than a couple of scenes across different episodes where his name 'Dong' would be part of a joke. To top that off, they also got a gay black man and some other characters with Injun background in it, along with stereotypical jokes about their races and cultures.
Quentin Tarantino also got away with a movie where one of the Caucasian main characters say the word *beep* multiple times. In fact, in the last year alone I've seen more than 10 movies which has all these elements combined in them.
If you compare these movies to movies from the 1930s to 1990s, you'll see that we are actually more lenient in censorship today.
> Movie studios actually go with what their marketing research would say, and of course, some legal considerations.
Correct. And, those legal considerations include, "will we get complaints?", "will the media reviewers talk about how trashy it is", and "will we be stuck with an 'R' rating?"
> But, here's a show made in 2015 which has an Asian character named Dong in it.
Yes. And Dong is a valid Asian name. And so is Wang. But, I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people with a first and/or middle name of Long or Duk.
And, Kimmy's Dong had a very traditional last name Nguyen. It's not like his last name is "Innabochs" or anything.
> There were more than a couple of scenes across different episodes where his name 'Dong' would be part of a joke.
Yes, "Kimmy Schmidt" broke a lot of racial taboos. Good for them. But, notice that they weren't picked up by any traditional network or even cable station. Even NBC, who pushed the limits with "30 Rock" wouldn't take a chance.
> Quentin Tarantino also got away with a movie where one of the Caucasian main characters say the word *beep* multiple times.
And he gets a lot of push back because of that. There are a LOT of people that won't go see any movie with his name attached to that.
Besides, I do recognize that there is a category of movie that is gritty and shocking just because it can be. They already contain lots of violence and gore, so a bit of swearing and racism won't lose them any customers that weren't going to see it anyway.
I am talking about mainstream movies that are light comedies or light dramas (like "Sixteen Candles"). Today, you just won't see anything starring Jennifer Aniston, Kevin James, or Meryl Streep that has even the slightest hint of racism, actual violence, or anything sensative.
Let's look at the top 20 comedies for 2015.
1 Minions
2 Pitch Perfect 2
3 Hotel Transylvania 2
4 The SpongeBob Movie: Sponge Out of Water
5 The Peanuts Movie
6 Spy!
7 Trainwreck
8 Daddy’s Home
9 Get Hard
10 Ted 2
11 Pixels
12 The Intern
13 Paul Blart: Mall Cop 2
14 Magic Mike XXL
15 The Wedding Ringer
16 Sisters
17 Vacation
18 The Night Before
19 Hot Pursuit
20 The DUFF
The animated movies on the list certainly won't feature any racism or bigotry and the violence is the kind where the victim pops up with birds flying around their heads. At least half of the rest are light, feel-good comedies that avoid any hint of racism.
Of the rest, I haven't seen half of them, but Magic Mike seems like the only one that might dip its toes into those waters.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
Have you seen Jennifer Aniston's Horrible Bosses 1 & 2? The movie depicts her trying to rape Dale.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2014/11/21/review-horrible-bosses-2-treats-rape-as-a-punchline/#705ce9902cc4
It's got at least a couple of jokes about black people in the sequel. Such as their company name, which when said out loud would sound like the N word. Then there were the jokes about being gay.
And here's a clip of blatant racial discrimination jokes towards an Asian character:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrWBcDgry8E
Here are some quotes from Ted 2:
Female Nurse: Well I guess it's alright - those are the rejected sickle cell samples.
Ted: Did you hear that, Johnny? You're covered in rejected black guy sperm. You look like a Kardashian.
Joy: Look at that! You see them two white *beep* over there?
Ted: Yeah, what?
Joy: Look at them! They so happy, because they got that little baby keeping them together. If they didn't have that baby, they'd just be two sad-ass white *beep* waiting for Downton Abbey to come on.
Compared to Jack Lemmon's comedies, or Hitchcock's thrillers, or even Kubrick's Clockwork Orange, today we have scenes/jokes that would have been impossible to air back then. Not just about race, but also jokes that can be seen offensive to people of all religions. We also make fun of cultures, like the Irish, French, and many more.
Coincidentally, half of the movies on your list are children's movies. So, I don't think they actually represent even the majority of the movies nowadays.
Let's talk about TV shows as well. We now have American Dad, Family Guy, South Park, Archer, and many more shows that are filled with racist, homophobic, anti-religion jokes. In the 80s, we wouldn't even imagine there'd be animated series like these.
> Ted: Did you hear that, Johnny? You're covered in rejected black guy sperm. You look like a Kardashian.
That's not a racist joke; that a joke about a specific real person already in the public eye. Long Duk Dong was a character specifically created to be a racial stereotype. There's a difference. I mean, he was eating his food with two forks held as chopsticks! Yikes!
> Compared to Jack Lemmon's comedies, or Hitchcock's thrillers, or even Kubrick's Clockwork Orange, today we have scenes/jokes that would have been impossible to air back then.
Some movies, yes. But, I've watched a couple of old-time classics recently and there are definitely ethnic slurs in them that you just couldn't get away with today.
I think the difference is in the delivery. When Archer or Ted uses blatant and shocking slurs, it is done with a wink to the audience that the character is absurd and shocking and what he is saying is not really okay for the average person to say. Eric Cartmen and Peter Griffin are definitely not role models. It's pretty obvious that the producers are saying, "Don't be like this."
But, the racial slurs in movies from the 1980s and earlier are mostly "real" people being just as bigoted as society was at the time. They would call someone a *beep* without any trace of irony or shame. And the audience would never flinch.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
That's not a racist joke; that a joke about a specific real person already in the public eye.No no, that's the part about looking like a Kardashian. The part where they arrived to 'black guy sperm' from 'rejected sickle cell sample' was obviously a racial stereotype joke.
But, the racial slurs in movies from the 1980s and earlier are mostly "real" people being just as bigoted as society was at the time. They would call someone a *beep* without any trace of irony or shame. And the audience would never flinch.I see what you mean. It was worse because the jokes were written by people who actually believed those racial differences, and was somehow a reflection of how society was back then. I would say that our society is actually progressing towards the more positive than negative. In which people are more aware of the need for equality and mutual respect. We can't let people get discouraged by terms like political correctness.
There are people who genuinely want fairness and equality, both from the weaker group (minority) and the stronger group (majority). Terms like PC creates prejudice towards these people. It undermines their ideals, which in the purest form, is basically "justice for all". This includes fighting for mutual respect in the entertainment industry as well.
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> It was worse because the jokes were written by people who actually believed those racial differences, and was somehow a reflection of how society was back then.
Right. It's about what people think, rather than what they do. You can add a few racist jokes into your movie if the intent is to show that intolerance in a bad light. When Archer uses a slur, it is generally followed by Lana or someone else commenting on how inappropriate or insensitive that was. Notice that Archer never defends his use of the slur. That scene sends a positive message to the audience, despite including a slur.
In Sixteen Candles, the characters and the script just made fun of Dong without any indication to the audience that it was inappropriate.
> I would say that our society is actually progressing towards the more positive than negative.
Yes we are. TV and movies reflect that, in that characters that engage in bigoted behavior are usually shown in a bad light.
But, the real question is whether attitudes are changing rather than just appearances. It's one thing for an employer to announce that he is equal-opportunity, give minorities fair job interviews, and refrain from using ethnic slurs in public. But, if that employer consistently gives the jobs to only white men, then it's probable that he is not as enlightened as he presents himself.
In a similar vein, we heard Trump say all throughout his campaign that he wanted to "drain the swamp" of Washington by getting rid of all the lobbyists and big bankers. Yet, he is now nominating those exact people to his cabinet. Should we believe his words or his actions?
> Terms like PC creates prejudice towards these people. It undermines their ideals, which in the purest form, is basically "justice for all".
I agree. Being PC is the equivalent of "giving lip service." You present yourself to the public one way, but that doesn't always mean that you are the same way deep down inside yourself. Being PC can easily be seen as phony.
But, being PC is an important first step. If a person is forced by society to be PC for long enough, that person may actually start to loosen their grip on their deep-seated prejudices. If you are a white person and are forced to work with, and be nice to, the new black guy on the job, you may actually come to realize that he's not a bad guy trying to steal your wallet. He's a hard-working guy with a family just like you and you are happy to share a beer with him after work. If you hadn't been forced to be PC with the guy, you probably wouldn't have grown and changed any of your prejudices.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
I agree with everything you said in your last post.
Not sure if I was being too naive about movies from the old days. I just felt that people were more polite and therefore seemed more civilised compared to today. At least we were more civilised in the 60s compared to now in 2010s. But I'm not sure if we were less prejudiced back then. Seeing that we had segregation at the time.
> I just felt that people were more polite and therefore seemed more civilised compared to today.
Yes. Until the last few decades, being civilized meant being polite and observing good manners. There was a set procedure on how to behave around other people. You said "please" and "thank you" all the time. You presented yourself with a calling card and wrote thank-you letters.
But, prejudice and bigotry ran rampant. You spoke with the man of the house, not the lady. You ignored the beggars on the street. The butler was warned not to engage in chit-chat with the guests. There was a class system -- often based on race or occupation -- and you just did not cross class boundaries.
Good manners were seen as a way to tell fine, upstanding white men from the lower classes. The elite has time and money to spend on learning good manners. The workers did not. Manners were a way of segregating the classes.
> But I'm not sure if we were less prejudiced back then. Seeing that we had segregation at the time.
People were always a lot more open about their prejudices in the old days. They used ethnic slurs openly. And why not, people tended to get reinforcement from their social groups. If every white man you knew was in the KKK, you could express your anti-black feelings around them and they'd cheer you on.
TV and the internet have helped put the brakes on that kind of behavior. We have TV shows with black or gay characters that are presented as equals to white men. Every cop show or doctor show seems to have about half women in key roles. The melting pot is shown to be a real thing.
The internet is a double-edged sword, though. While it does allow people to be exposed to more and different people and cultures, it does also encourage people with false beliefs to find each other and reinforce their bad behavior.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
People were always a lot more open about their prejudices in the old days. They used ethnic slurs openly.They did this for the wrong reasons, because they feel invincible not because they feel honesty is best.
The internet is a double-edged sword, though. While it does allow people to be exposed to more and different people and cultures, it does also encourage people with false beliefs to find each other and reinforce their bad behavior.Although "false beliefs" is subjective to everyone, I agree with your point about people finding each other and reinforcing negative behaviours. This is why I believe that good well-educated adults also have the responsibility to go online and put contents on the internet with the aim to educate youngsters, the same way as a teacher or a parent would in their own society. This isn't forcing your belief to other people or brainwashing children or anything. It's simply mature adults being more involved in the mental and psychological development of the younger generation, not just in real life but also on the internet. I'm not talking about telling people off over the internet. But by giving advice or simply having a civilised discussion like you and I have done so far. We have a role in showing exemplary attitude which, if done in a macro scale, would have an impact on how our society would evolve.
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> by giving advice or simply having a civilised discussion like you and I have done so far.
I usually a less altruistic reason for having civilized discourse with racists; nothing pisses them off more than debating someone who won't take the bait and swear with them.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
I don't mean pissing off racists or anyone. I mean trying to counter the negativity that is spreading around through the cyber world. To try and influence more people to act more positive that's all.
To be honest, I'm not a good example of positive attitude myself. But I just think that if we don't even try at all, the world will become worse and worse.
You know, most people aren't aware that each year we see an increasing number of bullying, hate crime, and depression. People are more and more apathetic to one another. I believe there's a real concern in the decline of the moral of society.
Unless you grew up in the 80s, you wouldn't understand. There was a large influx of Asian culture into the "new wave" of 80s (Japanese character letters, songs, clothes). The movie was simply a reflection of that.
I would also mention that during the 70s, there was a brief period when a certain kind of politically incorrect (by today's standard) humor was generally accepted and not viewed as intentionally derisive. Desegregation was still in process, and any overt or outright bigotry or racial animosity was opposed. Most people could tell the difference between someone who was an outright bigot as opposed to someone who's just cracking a few off-color jokes.
As for Asian culture and stereotypes, I'm reminded of an old episode of the "Our Gang" series in which one of the kids' mother is pregnant and about to have her fourth child. Just by coincidence, the kid reads in one of his schoolbooks that "every fourth child born is Chinese," which would have been true back then (as a proportion of global birth rates). But he's a kid, so he reasons that this must mean that his mother's new baby will be born Chinese. The kid freaks out, and wonders what he's going to do. One of the other kids (Spanky, I think) tells him of a Chinese family he knew of, "and they're swell," according to Spanky. So, nothing to worry about, since Chinese people are swell. They go and visit this family and play with the Chinese kid and talk to the parents, who are constantly quoting Confucius. Now, that came off as your "stereotypical" Chinese family as it would have been viewed in the 1930s and 40s.
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"Unless you grew up in the 80s, you wouldn't understand."
I grew up in the '50s and '60s, and I understand. The movie is funny as hell, and nobody in their right mind should be offended by it.
Actually, if you grew up in the 80s you were probably too young to get it. You would have to have been born in the '60s or early 70s so you'd be at least a teenager when the movie came out.
it was kinda racist, but it was a role. I don't think he was held against his will or anything to play the damn character. It was his choice. And he was funny anyway. Not like I think all Asians are the same.
shareThere are at least another dozen threads on this subject here.
Racist? no
PC? who cares
Funny? hell yeah?
Goooooonnnnnnnnggggggggg!!!!
"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"
Hughes was just showing how racially insensitive upper middle class whites can be concerning their relations with other ethnic types. Basically he wrote what he knew having been born and bred in that environment.
'When there's no more room in Hollywood, remakes shall walk the Earth.'
So I'm guessing you didn't laugh when Grandpa Fred said "Hey Howard there's your Chinaman."
Guts: The magazine for real men.
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Is that the best you can do?
"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"
The "bohunk" remark wasn't very pretty, either.
I'm not crying, you fool, I'm laughing!
Hewwo.
Read tge trivia section. The Asian actor who played the Asian character, did the audition in a mock if Korean, then spoke PERFECT English. So if there was any racism it was done by Asian actor. Typical liberal response, I don't like something so it's whatever ism fits what you want to see.
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