I thought that was an intentional contrast that Leone made. Two rape scenes; one is confusing and hard to gauge, the other is horrific and tragic. I assume it's no coincidence that the more devastating of the two is shown second.
Noodles seemed to be a man that didn't understand how to be decent, even if he intermittently wanted to be. He frequented with the neighborhood prostitute as a young man, exposing him to the darker side of sexuality. This, paired with his sporadically violent nature, led to his assault on Carol. I believe, in a way, Noodles assumed his attack on Deborah would end similarly. But she was not as damaged as Carol, and responded with shock and sorrow.
Just as the OP, I lost any shred of sympathy I had for Noodles during that scene. But, in a way, a part of it came back as I thought about the pathology of his actions. Leone had an ability to present characters as monstrous as they are tragic. For the purpose, I believe, of highlighting this contrast in humanity, and speculating as to whether ones environment can ever be washed from their psyche.
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neverthereever
9 years ago
Noodles peeking at Deborah is follow by the scene where he is exposing himself to Peggy.
He's crushing on Deborah but Peggy is more attainable.
With Carol he has no repect for her because she is so eager
He tries to extraveganlty court Deborah, he has the money to use to impress her, thinking that will stop her thinking of himm as a kid from the slums and of the kind of sophisticate she has always sought.
Only when she tells him she is going to Hollywood does he realize that his fantasy of being anything other than the boy she told to take a look at yourself just crumbles.
He realizes that to have her he has to be himself, not what he thinks will impress her and himself is driven with lust as much as romance.
It's after this that He rejects Max's scheme for big money working for the corporation, because now money has no meaning for him, it didn't get him what he reall wanted. So he will remain with the smell of the streets on him and it gives him a hard on, because it's his only connection to Deborah
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daveyh (623)
4 years ago
as well argued as this is, I don't know that it had anything to do with Noodles rejecting Max's scheme for big money. He showed he was against joining or working for "the combination" in earlier scenes ("if we're not careful, he's gonna have us in the palm of his hand"....."didn't like bosses. It was a good idea then. It still is" etc)
His bond with the rest of the gang was damaged after the incident with Deborah though. Could be that they knew he'd raped Moe's sister, or Noodles was wary about if they knew or not, or, from what I can interpret, Noodles himself was feeling guilty or affected by what had happened and so acted more withdrawn and distant. Could be a combination of all of the above.
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post-orgasmic-mood
9 years ago
Thank you for your reply. I hadnt finished the film when I typed my original post. I have now finished it and what made me even angrier, was that 30 years laters, he goes to her dressing room to see "if she made the right choice by not choosing me" - WTF?? No apology for the rape? nothing at all.
No power in the verse can stop me
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beerguy55
9 years ago
In some respects it's water under the bridge. In others it's something that doesn't need to be said.
When she says "I never thought I would - there's a difference", that to me is an implicit act of forgiveness.
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lightningcows
8 years ago
Leone had an ability to present characters as monstrous as they are tragic. For the purpose, I believe, of highlighting this contrast in humanity, and speculating as to whether ones environment can ever be washed from their psyche.
I agree here. Noodles was not the best of men. He raped twice, once with Carol and then with Deborah, and killed a couple of times. Yet, his humanity was shown when he comes back to New York as an older man, refusing to kill Max and letting go of his past life. Although not perfect, Noodles didn't show himself to be an evil man, though he did do bad things.
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