MovieChat Forums > The Killing Fields (1985) Discussion > It was totalitarian Marxism, not communi...

It was totalitarian Marxism, not communism.

posted 14 years ago by Swoop187187
20 replies | jump to latest

Pol Pot just skipped the "motions" of progressive Marxism. Socialism, communism then totalitarian personality cult. Pol Pot just cut to the chase, thats all..

Look at Mao's China - it was just as bad, the same can be said for Lenin/Stalin's regimes, Hitler to boot to some extent..

Socialism is evil because it always ends the same and always takes the same pathway, the presumption of egalitarianism, that morphs into authoritarianism then totalitarianism, then lunatic personality cult 1984 madness [Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh etc]..

[–] Odilwerk 14 years ago

No imo.

Socialism is evil because we as people can and like to be evil.

There's nothing wrong with communism and socialism in theory, it's simply human error that makes it not work.

[–] markafc83 14 years ago

Sorry dude, but your comment makes no sense!

You've got it completely the wrong way round.

If a social theory drives against human nature it is the social theory that is flawed. Human nature simply 'is' it can't be 'wrong'!

I wouldn't use the term evil though - I try to resist making such moral assertions when discussing ideas.

[–] Odilwerk 14 years ago

It is part of our evolution to develop ourselves past our 'natural' impulses and thus to create a better world for either ourselves or everyone, depending on how you look at the selfish gene theory.

Social theories simply drive our wish to better ourselves as a species further. Sometimes this can go well, other times it does not, depending on the theory and an un-calculable amount scenarios that can affect it's outcome.

You'l find that not all communist or even socialist societies become the stereotypical like end result of the main ones.

"Socialism is evil because it always ends the same and always takes the same pathway, the presumption of egalitarianism, that morphs into authoritarianism then totalitarianism, then lunatic personality cult 1984 madness [Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh etc]"

You use the term evil first. You also generalise far too much.

Also, I never said Human nature is wrong, I said human nature is the reason for why ideas fail, because they don't correspond to how people actually react, instead relying on how we expect people 'should' react, which again proves the problems of assuming we live in a morally sound world.

"If a social theory drives against human nature it is the social theory that is flawed."

Capitalism is by no means free of the flaws. No system of society is, hence our rules to protect ourselves. You can apply this quote to the ideas you've brought up, however you can apply it to any idea anyone brings up.

[–] jtf1986 14 years ago

"You use the term evil first."

Why do you think that markafc83 and Swoop187187 are the same person?

[–] Odilwerk 14 years ago

Yeah I noticed that after I'd finished it. Regardless, it all still stands.

[–] subase 14 years ago

It's actually not part of our evolution to do crap. There's human nature and evolution is a just a theory on how it changes.

Problem is anti-human nature theories like communism (not socialism which actually works with human nature to a degree) are stupid and that's why they've resulted in millions of deaths.

It's basically a religion, it has nothing to do with reality. Marxists theories have been disproven for a long time now. The only stand as relics to progress of a better understanding of human nature. He saw capitalism as evil, we now recognize it as a useful tool to direct peoples lust for possessions in a more productive fashion.

[–] cash_carstar 13 years ago

I think it really is more complicated than all that. I think any pure ideology is bad. Even in the West we have a mixed market, not a free market. A purely free market would be a disaster. And whenever we move closer in that direction we see the consequences. Same is true in the other direction with pure communism.

I really think such issues need be dealt with case by case and not blanketed. There are so many variations and factors to consider. And many times it really is more about the individual leaders than anything else.

You look at South and Central American politics, plenty of pretty bad left wing leaders no doubt; but in many cases the right wing regimes they overthrew were worse or at least just as bad.

"That's what a gym teacher once told me."

[–] brupey-1 13 years ago

then lunatic personality cult 1984 madness
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Pol Pot did not establish a personality cult - he was virtually invisible

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] FilmLover1989 13 years ago

I think people need to understand that socialism is not an extreme ideology and is certainly not "evil". The most democratic countries with the highest quality of life usually all have very social policies such as free health care and generous support for the less fortunate and vulnerable people in their societies. It is when socialism goes to far and gets in the hands of insane people that things get out of control.

But then again, when this happens, it is not socialism (or even communism) that causes suffering. It is the people that completely throw these ideologies away and then murder people. To say that any left ideology kills people is wrong, it is the people that claim to be implementing it, but then break its rules.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] FilmLover1989 13 years ago

I appreciate you're response but have to say, for the most part, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. To claim that leftism has caused the financial crisis in Europe is crazy. The financial crisis has been caused by pure and utter greed, by a handful of elite people, i.e. capitalism. I'm Irish and can tell you that this place has not been destroyed by the social policies we have implemented over the past couple of decades, but by our banking system (and the top people in that system) getting greedy. The Irish (and European) taxpayer is not now paying billions as a result of socialism but because of capitalism.

Also, I think you have an image of Europe as being completely socialist. In reality, almost every country in Europe has a centre-right government and has for a very long time (France now being the exception). I'm not claiming that capitalism is bad, I just think we need to avoid the extremes views that some people take. If you have a overtly capitalist or socialist society you will be in trouble. Balance is needed. What has happened over the past few years can never be allowed happen again. Left-leaning policies, such as banking regulation, are needed to ensure that a handful of investors and speculators cannot bring entire countries and millions of people to the brink because "capitalism is good."

Thanks for the response again, I hope you don't see me as evil because I'm left leaning! :)

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] brupey-1 13 years ago

Irish cuisine

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I've lived in Ireland, and I'd have to say that "Irish cuisine" is an an oxymoron!

[–] killfair 13 years ago

It was a Maoist regime.
More xenophobic than anything else might I add.

'Hey hey mama said the way you move!'

[–] doctorfurby 12 years ago

The whole mortgage meltdown in the US was predicated on the assumption that everyone deserves a home even if you can't afford one. Hence the zero percent down on a home that many took but could not afford. Many of them were backed by the greedy government.

[–] Gmork76 12 years ago

LOL! This Irish Neo-communist arguments are so mind numbingly stupid and tedious. Someone said that today's left is suffering from some kind of collective brainwashing.
But sorry,lad, communism is dead, the left is dead. But i dont blame you, You haven't lived under communist rule, where the political elite was living well while we starved because there was no food, no bread and undrinkable water.
So in whatever information you base your arguments, lacks a reliable reference. Ask someone who was alive behind the iron curtain and learn how living under communism rule really was. A historical failure of massive proportions.

[–] Gmork76 12 years ago

And yes, socialism is a failure. We need to put all left and right crap behind us and focus on saving our race from extinction! And go together into the future as friends and face the horrors that await us because of the damage we have done to our precious blue planet.

[–] Randy_D 12 years ago

Come on what horrors are you talking about not that liberal hoax global warming!

[–] 12 years ago

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