I've seen this movie countless times but forgot if Daniel's friendship with that boy he met in his building ever flourished. I don't remember seing him after his freinds scoffed at him for being freinds with Daniel after he got beat up by the karate gang.
shareSadly it never did, he was never mentioned or seen again after the beach scene.
He buckled under the pressure from his friends about being friends with someone who was perceived as weak or uncool.
What I never got was how they could think that? Daniel didn't take any of Johnny's crap and even landed a punch so in any other social situation he would have gotten major points from his friends for not backing down. It just never rang true to me that he would be scoffed at.
Exactly! That's why I always change the channel when that scene comes on. It wasn't like Daniel antagonized the situation. The bullies started it, and on top of that, from what I remember--he got jumped and they kicked him while he was down literally.
I can tell that the freind felt remorse for Daniel and wanted to help him but like you mentioned, he succumbed to the peer pressure.
But you mention some good points, Daniel took a heck of a beating and did not back down until he physically unable to....so I don't think that was realistic that the other guys did not want anything to do with him.
they are actually in the soccer scene of daniels first day of school and they diss him.
https://youtu.be/93sGUFpVxFI
Daniel's so called friends came back at the end to watch the tournament and are in the audience in the background cheering for him. You can clearly see it in a bluray or HD version of the film.
shareGreat call as he and the others were in the crowd cheering him on.
An additional scene with Freddie at any point in the middle of the film would have made for a nice bridge from all we know in his opening scenes to him being at the tournament and cheering on Daniel. Since they did live in the same area, it makes sense that they would have seen each other (or school) and still interacted at any point prior to the December tournament. That was a good 3-4 months of time! They had to have hung out, talked, etc.
Seems like Freddie being at the tournament is motivated by he and his friends wanting to see a good fight and for Johnny to go down. And Freddie remembers the beach confrontation as well since he was there.
"what's this? A doorknob? Good show!" -- the easily impressed Dr. Bartley
I agree. It was weird for his friends to have abandoned him because he (obviously) lost a fight to a gang of much bigger karate-trained school bullies. Weaklings tend to stick together, like the geeks at school. Instead, Daniel is totally ostracised with no friends, and even his girlfriends’ friends are disgusted by him.
The guy has literally done nothing to deserve any of this, and it’s not like he’s a loser - the guy bagged the hottest girl in school on day 1, that in itself is an alpha move worthy of respect.
They weren't his friends. He'd only met Freddy that day who introduced him to HIS friends at the beach. When Johnny and co turn up Freddy and his friends know exactly who they are. As far as Freddy and his friends are concerned Daniel is an idiot to go up against the Cobra Kai boys and as such they felt it best to keep their distance or suffer a similar fate. Everything that happened to Daniel will have become common news around school, so despite we the audience not seeing Freddy and his friends until the competition, it's not that strange he's not around.
As for Ali's friends they, like Ali and the Cobras, are from the Hills, whereas Daniel is from Reseda. They look down on Daniel because he is not their social equal. Like Freddy and co though they cheer Daniel on at the competition.
One of them lived in the same shithole apartment block as Daniel and invited him to the beach party. It’s bizarre that he would just abandon him because he took a beating from some obvious dickheads. It would make more sense for the rest of the school, also intimidated by the Cobras, to sympathise with him and even congratulate him for trying to stand his ground.
At the very least the geeks would have empathised with his plight.
He maybe abandoned him because he didn't want a beating just for being with him. Maybe he just thought this kid who bragged about doing karate yet got his ass handed to him on the beach was a dickhead too. As for the rest of the school to sympathise with him, I can only guess you weren't at school in the 80's. Trust me, nobody would associate with some kid getting picked on. In fact they most likely would have felt rather him than me and kept their distance.
shareI was at school then, and what I’m saying was both plausible then and would be now - it’s human nature. Yes, they might act defensively when in the presence of the Cobras for fear of a beating by association, but ‘outside the ring’ people bond over a common enemy.
It kinda made sense for Rocky to be an alienated bum given his borderline retarded personality and the harshness of the streets, but a likeable guy like Daniel going out with the school hottie would not be without friends, especially with one guy living in the same building.
The film just needed a scene or two addressing this dynamic.
Don't agree at all. Daniel was an outsider in any case, whereas the others had most likely come through school together. The only way they would have banded/bonded together is if Daniel had rounded them up. Seeing as they mocked him just before the soccer trials that wasn't going to float. The movie itself goes to great lengths to show Daniel as an outcast and a misfit.
1) Moves 3000 miles from his home and friends
2) He lives in the poor part of town
3) New school where the very person who handed his ass to him on the beach also attends
4) The guys he thought he'd made friends with think he's a jerk because he stood up to Johnny
Morally you are right, but realistically not really. In any case if that had happened then we wouldn't need him to learn Karate of Mr Miyagi.
Rocky is an outcast for understandable reasons. Daniel instantly makes friends and is popular - with Freddy reaching out to him, and there is no good reason for those friends to suddenly abandon him because he showed strength of character standing up to the bullies, nor for Ali’s friends to loathe him.
As it is, it looks like Daniel is surrounded by sociopaths and villains. High school is just not that vicious to people like Daniel who are decent, charming, good looking and able to pick up the prom queen. No way.
Freddy is a jerk who probably linked up with Daniel because either there was no one else in the apartment block his age or he's just plain old nosey or both. Freddy's friends were like Freddy.
You know what? High school can be vicious. Established friend cliques don't accept strangers easily. Often as not they have to prove themselves over time before they are accepted. Daniels first meeting with Freddy's group ends miserably with him getting a beatdown and telling people to leave him alone on the beach. Not a great first impression at all. Furthermore Daniel has incurred the ire of possibly the most popular guys in school by flirting with and eventually getting with the leader of this bunch ex girlfriend who he is still carrying a torch for. As such, Freddy and co probably wouldn't want to be associated with him and the problems that might bring.
As for Daniel being able to pick up the prom queen, he was the new kid on the block. Seen that kind of thing happen a lot. He wasn't a bad looking kid, but then Ali was on the rebound from Johnny. She was easily distracted though when the next hunk came along in the shape of that football player from UCLA
Yeah I’m not buying that, the film needed to explain why everyone at school shuns or hates Daniel (except Ali) or have some scenes with Freddy and the others to fill in the blanks of them abandoning Daniel then suddenly cheering him on at the tournament.
shareThey shun him because
A) He's an outsider
B) He's fallen foul of the most popular guys who are most likely dating the most popular girls (Ali excepted).
If you don't or can't buy that then the film makers haven't done their job. Most others do buy it though.
A) He was an outsider when they invited him to the beach and hung out with him, and when they celebrated him during the tournament.
B) Falling foul of the school bullies would surely unite him with everyone else who hates them, especially their other victims.
Yep, I certainly don’t buy it, and the number of threads also remarking on this strange behaviour show it’s not just me. But if it makes sense to you then great.
It does.
A) 'THEY' didn't invite him, Freddy did. 'THEY' didn't hang out with him beyond the beach. 'THEY' celebrating him at the tournament shows how fickle 'THEY' are.
B) Were the Kai bullies to Freddy and co or alpha males? It is only shown that they bully Daniel.
As for other people (me included) remarking on this behaviour, it is mainly down to thinking Freddy being a fair weather friend for what he did.
I’m referring to them as a group, Freddy is a representative of that group. He invited Daniel to hang out with all of them and they accepted him into their group.
It makes no sense for them to abandon him because he got beaten up by the school bullies, and then to suddenly reappear in Daniel’s corner at the end. It needed explanation.
You want an explanation?
They were fickle.
Right, having completed the trilogy it seems Freddie and the guys’ fickleness is part of a bizarre pattern whereby Daniel is relentlessly bullied and mistreated wherever he goes.
The only people who treat him well are his mum (who’s never around), Miyagi and whichever girl he’s trying to nail (but never does)
Even Miyagi gives him a hard time in Part III for signing on to do the tournament - when Daniel literally had to or he and his bird would be murdered.
Whether it’s Rocky or Daniel, director Avilsden clearly believes in the ‘kick the puppy’ principle of storytelling, taking it to an absurd extreme, and Freddie and the guys abandoning Daniel after he gets his ass kicked is yet another example of this.
Here's my take on this. Movie scripts go through a lot of writes and re-writes before the final screen play is settled on (I heard that Star Wars was being filmed while the ending wasn't even written).
I believe that Freddie's introduction in the early scenes suggest that he was originally written to have a bigger part, but during re-writes, the time that Daniel spent with Miyagi increased and the time with Freddie decreased.
Maybe there would have been scenes where they became pretty good friends, Freddie abandons Daniel when he becomes a target of the Cobras and gets beat up by Johnny, but then comes back on his side *before* his tournament win over Johnny.
Just a guess, no inside info here.
God I hate fair weather Freddie. He was a disingenuous weasel who totally ditched Daniel after being defeated by Johnny at the beach party & even mocks him about it later. The two faced weasel even had the nerve to join in celebrating Daniel's victory at the end.
shareYou might like the 'Beyond the Karate Kid: The Redemption of Johnny Lawrence' post on the KK3 board. It has an interesting take on what happened after Karate Kid and Freddy is in it.
shareFor Freddy to turn into a fair-weather weasel is just kicking the puppy a few too many times. The bullying was vicious enough without having Daniel’s friends abandon him and Ali’s friends loathe him as well... for no good reason.
shareThe bullying was even worse before they cut a couple of scenes from the movie
shareWhat extra bullying scenes did they remove?
There was a scene where Johnny puts a pie on Daniels seat and he sits on it and the whole dining area laughs at him and there was a scene where Daniel opens his locker to find it full of bags of dog shit. Lastly there was a scene where Daniel says to Johnny that he knows what he (Johnny) is doing is wrong and that Kreese's teaching is wrong, so Johnny grabs him, pushes him up against a wall and threatens him.
shareWearsalan, do you have a source or a link to any kind of script for these scenes? I'd like to see more of it.
I've heard William Zabka say he got the part based on how he played the last scene you've mentioned, but given what we've witnessed so far, I don't know that Johnny pushing Daniel up against a wall after he's questioned his sensei's outlook is that bad.
The other 2 scenes, however, would make quite a difference, especially if they were to take place between the first week of school and the halloween dance. It would give more reason for Daniel's water-hose stunt and would put paid to a huge part of the "Daniel is the real bully" theory (that several weeks, maybe even 2 months, have gone by without incident and then Daniel needlessly re-ignites the situation). If the audience are shown that Johnny & co have still been harassing Daniel during that time, well, frankly, the fact that he drenches Johnny at the halloween dance would make a lot more sense .
The novelization and screen play have the scenes in them
shareFreddy Fernandez is no friend.
share