MovieChat Forums > Fatal Vision (1984) Discussion > Biggest frame job In American history

Biggest frame job In American history

posted 12 years ago by BShepherd24
28 replies | jump to latest

Biggest frame job in American history. Why would a guy who had absolutely no criminal history, no adulterous affairs, no nothing except maybe a big ego as most doctors do, go on a murderous rampage out of nowhere and kill his wife and his two daughters that clearly meant the world to him? For what? He didn't run to any woman after he did this, he didn't have anything to gain financially from their deaths. There was absolutely no motive. Then throw in the fact that the Stokely lady, who was going to testify that she was there and knew the truth, was intimidated into not testifying. Such a sad story all the way around. A beautiful woman and two beautiful girls lost their lives and a man has to rot in prison for a crime he did not commit. I don't know how the folks who prosecuted this guy, the judge or anyone else involved sleeps at night knowing they put an innocent man in prison. Such a shame

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] khudson6 11 years ago

You really need to study this case, because this man was NOT framed, and there is plenty of evidence that supports that he indeed did the crime. He does have a past of violence, and there doesn't need to be a motive like the crime shows you watch on t.v. He showed lots of signs he was unhappy with his family, and his behavior after their deaths show that he could care less for them. Stoekley was NOT in that house that night. There is no proof, plus 2 people claimed she was somewhere else the night of the crime. The judge, State, and jury sleep fine at night the butcher that killed HIS family is where he belongs.Check out the website www.the jeffreymacdonaldcase.com there all the evidence is posted.

[–] nora1329 11 years ago

I also believe in Jeffrey MacDonald's innocence. When I read the book Fatal Vision and saw the movie version I was convinced he was guilty. But after reading Fatal Justice and taking a trip to the base at Ft Bragg, I saw him in a new light. There WAS fiber evidence and other evidence that corroborated his story, along with witnesses who came forward and the murdererrs themselves who confessed years later and knew details of the case, the family and items found in the house which they wouldn't have known about if they hadn't actually been there. And these things were never made public. This poor guy has been blamed for a crime he clearly didn't commit. He was totally railroaded. I even tried to write him a personal letter a few years back to show him my support. But I don't know if it was ever received and I don't know where he is now or I'd write him again.

[–] Noirdame79 11 years ago

MacDonald was not railroaded. He's guilty, and is wasting taxpayers money again with his BS. There was no evidence whatsoever of intruders, all the evidence, blood, fiber and DNA - points to Jeffery MacDonald. Unsourced hairs and fibers are useless. Helen Stoekely and Greg Mitchell have both been cleared via DNA testing. Nothing of them was found inside Castle Drive. Stoekley's confessions varied wildly, and none of the matched the physical evidence, or MacDonald's own account. She was a paranoid, unstable drug user.

What was found in the DNA testing was further proof that Jeffrey MacDonald murdered his family.

Don't be brainwashed.

[–] Ed in MO 11 years ago

I vividly remember watching this miniseries on television thirty years ago. Two things have always stood out for me about this case. The first is the phrase: "Acid is groovy; kill the pigs." It's pretty obvious that Dr. MacDonald made this up. It sounds like something that a military man might come up with after skimming over info from an article in Esquire magazine about the Manson murders on Cielo Drive. The second is the image of Dr. MacDonald holding his tiny child Kristen on his lap and stabbing her 33 times with a knife and then 15 times with an ice pick in order to cover up what he had done to his wife and daughter Kimberly. The little girl tried desperately to defend herself from her own father; her finger was nearly cut off in this vicious attack.

MacDonald should have killed himself after murdering his family. He would have spared everyone this ridiculous trail of lies that he has to keep up in order to retain some slim hope of getting out of prison. It just goes to show that you can buy all of the justice you want in America so long as your money holds out.

MacDonald is almost 70 now and he seems pretty healthy, so we'll probably have another fifteen years of this nonsense. Time passes quickly and so sometime in the late 2020's or early '30's it will all end, and Fatal Vision will become as distant a part of American criminal history as the Lizzie Bordon murders or Leopold and Loeb.

[–] southpawtarp 11 years ago

He killed his family because he wanted to be rid of them, plain and simple. There's your motive.

He was and is still full of himself. He had gained the prestige of graduating from a top college and medical school and had joined a branch of the army that would gain him huge additional respect for the rest of his life. He was on top of the world and wanted to go live the life of the playboy millionaire doctor. His family was the only obstacle to that.

There has never been any evidence or DNA from anybody else at the crime scene except for himself and his family. Hearsay testimony from an unreliable witness doesn't override physical evidence.

[–] Ed in MO 11 years ago

I don't think MacDonald had a conscious motive; I just think that the amphetamines he took probably put him over the edge. I know how sh itty I feel after I come down from just a few cups of coffee; I can only imagine how fried his brain must have felt from a severe lack of sleep after some of the crazy days he lived in the hospital and on base.

Then the kid wets the bed; the wife screams and yells and whacks him in the head with a hair brush; the other kid starts screaming.....the rage and anger he must have felt inside became just too much for the guy and he started beating his wife with the club. Once he realized what he had done to her and to his daughter, there was no turning back; so he concocted a wild story about some hippies to hide what he had done. And to complete the story he brutally stabbed to death all the members of his family.

Ironically, if he had somehow killed his father in law Freddy Kassab at the same time, he would have gotten away with this.

[–] southpawtarp 11 years ago

I agree that he didn't plan to kill his family that night or possibly anytime before that. I do think he suffered from temporary psychosis because of amphetamines and/or sheer exhaustion. However, there was numerous accounts of him being unfaithful to his wife over the years and also testimony that the marriage wasn't going nearly as well as the in-laws and friends thought. If MacDonald was openly keeping a wandering eye and sleeping around, it's not to much of a stretch to think that he probably subconsciously felt resentful towards his wife and wished to be free of the responsibility of having to take care of her and his family. After all, he did marry her only after she became pregnant. Combine his narcissistic personality with that resentment and throw amphetamine psychosis on top of that and you have a perfect storm for him to go into a rage to attack his wife.

[–] Ed in MO 11 years ago

We agree that MacDonald is a narcissist who puts his own needs far above anyone else. I think you're right; deep down inside he hated his family because they kept him from the goodies that would have naturally come his way as a handsome young doctor and Green Beret. If he hadn't killed his family in a rage that night, no doubt he would have eventually divorced his wife and taken off to California like so many others of his type, and he would have done it without a second thought.

[–] southpawtarp 11 years ago

Well said. The whole story even after all these years is still quite fascinating. When I say fascinating I don't mean in a good way, but sort of a Jack the Ripper type way. Here we have a guy who had it all to the average person and ended up committing a crime so vicious that it would probably give even "regular" killers in our society second thoughts about. Sorta an interesting look at the dark side of human nature in everybody, even those who seem good. Of course maybe I'm reading into it too much LOL.

Also, while I was sorry to see that the author of Fatal Vision passed earlier this week, perhaps the silver lining is that maybe it will lead to release of this film on DVD/Blu-ray at last. I watched it again for the second time last week on Youtube and I was amazed at how well it still held up. In many ways its better then a lot of theatre releases, both then and now. The cast was terrific! Gary Cole is one of the actors who even though he has never become A-list, is always memorable and is able to play both comedy and drama effectively, a difficult skill. What a powerful role to kick off his career.

Finally, the movie Jagged Edge reminds me of this story for some reason. I wonder if they got some of the general ideas from this?

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] MortimerSpice 10 years ago

What the hell does your masters in psych have anything to do with the Jeff Mcdonald case??

[–] MortimerSpice 10 years ago

And evidently you think you know more than Errol Morris who has written about some really bad cases of injustice. In fact, he says Macdonald was a bigger injustice than the Thin Blue Line. Maybe he's wrong but I would believe his opinion over you.....mister master of psychology.

[–] khudson6 10 years ago

Your going to take the opinion of Errol Morris who wrote a book before actually meeting the person?

[–] Ed in MO 10 years ago

If there is one thing we can learn from history, it's to not base too much belief in authority. At one time the Catholic Church was the greatest authority in the world, and for centuries that church taught that the sun and the stars revolved around the earth. It took Galileo and scores of years and mountains of evidence before they finally came around to the truth.

Do the research and you will come to the truth, as the jury did.

[–] kurt7825 10 years ago

there is a good chance he is innocent

[–] sccgirl1223 10 years ago

Guilty...Guilty...Guilty.....he was probably on speed and snapped and killed his wife and oldest daughter...then had to kill the baby because he wasn't gonna give up his life to raise her...the only time he got upset was talking about the youngest...he is guilty

[–] Ccap216 9 years ago

With all due respect BShepard24, you clearly are unaware of some facts about this case.

Jeff MacDonald had MANY adulterous affairs. He cheated on his wife, Colette, many, many, times! He had an affair with an army nurse during his Army training as a paratrooper in Fort Benning, Georgia and he carried on an affair with his former high school girlfriend, Carol Larsen, all throughout his marriage to Collette. Those are just 2 affairs. However, he had many, many more.

Jeff lied to his wife about having to go to Russia in July 1970 with the Fort Bragg boxing team. Fact is, he lied to her because he wanted to get away from her. The pressure of having a wife, 2 kids, and another on the way, was too much for Jeff to deal with.

Jeff lied to his in laws about killing one of the "killers" in October 1970.

All of which I stated above is FACT. If you even took a second to do some research on this case you would know this was true.

Jeff may not have had a criminal record leading up to the murders, but he had a very difficult time being honest and faithful to his wife.

I've been researching this case for 30+ years. I live in Oakdale, two towns away form Patchogue. I've spoken to some of Jeff and Colette's classmates, Colettes former HS boyfriend, Dean Chamberlain, and the investigators and prosecutor, Jim Blackburn. I've spoken with Christina Mascewicz (author of Scales of Justice). She also oversees the website, www.thejefferymacdonaldmurdercase.com

Yes, there are many people, including some of his former classmates, that beleive Jeffery is innocent. If you knew Jeffery in HS would would probably find it hard to believe he could commit a crime like this. But, unfortunately, forensic evidence does not lie. There is not one single piece of forensic evidence in that apartment that could be tied to any of the killers.

I'd be more than happy to discuss this case with you at length. For every reason why you think Jeff is innocent, I will be happy to dispute that with you and provide evidence that points to his guilt.

Let me end this by saying that I wish Jeffery was not guilty. I don't know Jeff personally. However, after speaking with people that knew him best, it was obvious to me that Jeff WAS a person that I would have liked. He had a very vicarious personality. He was intelligent, attractive, and had everything going for him. Unfortunately, in the early morning hours of Tuesday, February 17, 1970, events took place at the residence of 244 Castle Drive Fort Bragg, North Carolina that would forever change Jeff's life and the lives of the family of Collette Stevenson McDonald. In an instNt, Jeff's world spun out of control. He was coauthor in a moment where he could make 1 of 2 choices. He chose to go down a different path and in the process he destroyed countless lives. He not only destroyed the lives of his wife and children, he also destroyed the lives of Collette's surviving family members, and even the lives of his own family me members (his mother and his siblings).

So sad how many lives were destroyed because of a reckless decision.