MovieChat Forums > The Dollmaker (1984) Discussion > Feminism - What is a True Woman?

Feminism - What is a True Woman?

posted 12 years ago by Hythlodaeus
15 replies | jump to latest

It's been many years since I saw this movie - saw it when it first came out on TV.

What stands out to me is the beginning song - "I'm going back to my garden, fare thee well, tell me no goodbyes." I never forgot that song, it's such a sad song - that reminds you of the fact that there was true joy in poverty and a seriousness to every day life.

My wife reminds me very much of Gert - we met shortly after she moved from where her family was living in a house with no heat in the back woods of Tennessee - no joke - we met shortly before she was accepted to med school - I could see her doing a trake on one of her brothers if they needed it - she was one of those gritty yet kind country women. Tough as nails and a heart of gold.

We have this idea that a strong woman must be a hard woman - feminism has lied to us about what women are like. True women are like Gert - strong enough to handle anything yet with the heart of a mother, a gentle nurturer but with character that will never compromise. That is a woman, not these angry brittle womyn who are hailed today - women who try to be men but are neither women or men. They are nothing.

A true woman loves deeply and fights fiercely, but not like a man, like a woman. Men and women are very very different.

What hump?

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Hythlodaeus 11 years ago

Feminism insults both men and women - the criticism of feminism honors men and women.

What hump?

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[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Hythlodaeus 11 years ago

There was a great book called Lathe of Heaven, where whatever a certain man dreamed became reality. At one point, for the betterment of humanity, he was made to dream that there were no races - all would be one. When he woke up, everyone was a sickening ashen grey.

When distinctions are removed, the results are often very unfortunate.

What hump?

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[–] PlaintiveMelody (245) 7 years ago

Four years old post, I realize I am whistling into the wind, but I agree with your comments wholeheartedly. Gert is a great female character, a real woman.

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[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

To say there is such a thing as a "true" (or "real") woman or man lays down a strict, preordained standard for how everyone's supposed to be, and diminishes those who show variety. Men and women are emotionally and physically different...but in general they are more alike than they are different.

All people are capable of being strong, or empathetic, or showing leadership, or being nurturing. Both sexes can be domineering, or show sacrifice.

To say that people have to be a certain way to be "true" or "real" is a bit chilling.
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[–] PlaintiveMelody (245) 7 years ago

Have you seen the film?

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[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

Yes. It's actually a TV movie, rather than a feature film.

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[–] PlaintiveMelody (245) 7 years ago

Oh, well, I think it is so well done it deserves the term "film" rather than "movie". I suppose I have elevated in my semantics since it is elevated in my mind. For instance, I would call The Dollmaker a film, but The Transformers (any variation) a movie.

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[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

I thought THE DOLLMAKER was great, and very touching. Jane Fonda seems to have never given a bad performance in her life! She's a marvel.

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[–] PlaintiveMelody (245) 7 years ago

I might be wrong, but I do remember reading that she won an Emmy for the role. I have not seen a ton of movies starring Jane Fonda. The role of Gert is much like her father's role of Tom Joad in The Grapes of Wrath. I wonder if she tried to channel her father's portrayal of Joad in her own characterization of Gert. That quiet longsuffering was the same in both characters.

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[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

I know she researched this role by going on tour with Dolly Parton (who had just made "9 to 5" with her) and she saw the backwoods counties, and the country folk who came to Parton's concerts. Then she stayed with an elderly country couple for a month and thought she could help them around the farm, and they were like, "But what can you DO??" She was very humbled by them : ) But by the time she left, she knew how to split wood, pluck chickens, milk a cow etc.

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[–] PlaintiveMelody (245) 7 years ago

I wrote my reply before reading your comments about Fonda's research with Dolly Parton. Thanks for telling me, it is obvious she did not just step into a part, but really became a share cropper or tenant farmer (I am not sure if it was ever stated which they were). I did not know it was based on a book, now I want to read it. Parton probably gave her a lot of help too, as this was the world she had been born to.

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[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

Fonda wrote a VERY interesting autobiography called MY LIFE SO FAR in 2005, and that's where she discusses how a lot of her projects were made, etc. Discussing THE DOLLMAKER, I think she said the couple she stayed with also didn't have a radio or TV, and went to bed early because everyone was tired from working hard, and getting up early. And when they socialized, it was through making music together, or as a community; everyone had a speciality, whether it was the fiddle or singing or whatever.

Although she grew up with many privileges, Fonda was for the most part very democratic, and in touch with the needs of regular people. I remember one interview where a kind of hostile host was asking what her dream for the world was, if she wanted to overthrow democracy or what. And she said something like, "well, I'd like to see everyone have clean water, and not go hungry, and have a safe place to live..."

So staying with that country couple was not as much of a culture shock to her as it might have been for other stars. When she was married in the 70's and 80's, her house was by the beach....but it was a very modest home by Hollywood standards.
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[–] PlaintiveMelody (245) 7 years ago

Thanks for the information. I think people generally have the misconception that Hollywood stars always lived "high on the hog" when it was not always the case in the days of the studio system. If you look at some of the stars' homes in the 1940s and 1950s, they don't look nearly as palatial and grandiose as those of the stars of today.

I think there was a lot of backlash against Fonda over the Hanoi Jane incident. I'm not really sure what it was all about, to be honest . Unfortunately during the Vietnam War, some of the protest of the war did not take the soldiers in consideration. I know Jeremiah Dent, a local Vietnam prisoner of war and a hero, said he experienced people spitting on him and cursing him when he came home.

Things are different with the recent war. Most people disagreed with the war in Iraq, but supported the soldiers- so it was a different zeitgeist.

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