MovieChat Forums > Crimes of Passion (1984) Discussion > Have you seen this LATELY?

Have you seen this LATELY?


I ask because I remember seeing acid drenched Brit director Ken Russell’s CRIMES OF PASSION back in the mid 1980s & thinking it was an interesting, colorful, funny but dopey excessive sleazeathon. I remembered a gutsy performance by Kathleen Turner as the uptight fashion designer by day & platinum wigged hooker by night. I remembered a deliriously rabid performance by Tony Perkins as the demented, profanity spewing, serrated dildo waving priest. I remembered thinking how much fun it was to watch Ken Russell recklessly sail over the top and admiring him for pursuing his own wacky & unique vision. It’s for these fond remembrances that I decided to rent the DVD to watch with my boyfriend as he’d never seen it.

Seeing it again after 20 years I could only conclude: WHAT A PILE OF *beep* Holy cow, what the *beep* did I eat for breakfast the day I saw this turgid crapola & deemed it a good film?! It’s not even “so bad it’s good”. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that I saw it at college so was probably either stoned, tripping or both. That HAS to be the main reason—I refuse to believe that my taste was ever this bad. I think part of it also had to do with when it was released. It was just after Reagan was re-elected & it was “morning in America”. The social & political climate had turned more conservative. Sex, after exploding on the screen in the 1960s & 1970s, became a more verboten subject by 1984. Film itself seemed to become more timid after the Golden Age of 1970s American cinema. A film as explicit &…well as fearlessly vulgar as CRIMES OF PASSION stood out. It was amazing to see a mainstream actress like Kathleen Turner (fresh off BODY HEAT & ROMANCING THE STONE) in a role like this & it seemed so subversive to tackle this subject matter. I just can’t believe that this sophomoric drek passed the sniff test back then.

The biggest problem with the film is that it really is just a B erotic thriller with artsy pretensions. There’s no real point to the story—save to say that an unfulfilled yearning for intimacy (sexual or otherwise) can make people do wacky things. Mainly the movie exists as a way to move from one lurid pseudo-noir carnal scene to the next.

Then there’s the dialogue, most of which seems culled from the Playboy Party Joke Page circa 1972. Sample lines of dialogue:

“If you came back here to get into my panties you can forget it—there’s already one *beep* in there”

“I never forget a face, unless of course I sat on it’

Turner’s character as the hooker dressed up as a stewardess: “although I may run out of Pan Am coffee I will never run out of TWA-T (ea)”

Another big problem is the male star of the film, John Laughlin (yeah, I know, “Who”?). Either he was screwing the casting director, had pictures of the producer with his hand up the skirt of a Girl Scout or his older brother saved the studio head from drowning…ANY of these reasons why an actor this bad got a lead role in anything but a snuff film is more plausible than the idea that he got the role on talent alone...because he HAS NONE!! My God, I’ve seen coked up whores in amateur Bukkake porn with more emotion!! Visit any grade school Christmas pageant & you’ll see more credible performances than whatever it was Laughlin did in front of the camera—I can’t find a word for it because “acting” doesn’t come close to describe it. Laughlin isn’t that handsome so even the vacant eye candy factor is missing.

Then there’s the ultra cheesy synth score by the execrable Rick Wakeman. It’s not even cheesy in that MTV mid 80s way. This tin eared headache would’ve sounded dated in a 1970s flick. Imagine the B side of a single by the worst 70s Prog Rock band you can think of & you’ll get the idea.

Another major problem is that the movie doesn’t know if it wants to be an absurdist satire (ala Lynch), a dead serious comment on modern American sexual mores or an erotic thriller. Because of the films schizophrenia it fails miserably on all three counts. Russell seems to have shot the film from the viewpoint of a heavy panting pervert in a trench coat. The sex scenes he shows in explicit detail are either really dopey such as the one where Turner, as the hooker, plays a beauty contestant while cunnilingus is performed on her. Later on she shows the trick just how she plays “the flute”, aftewr which she dramatically wipes semen off her lips (eeewww!). Then there’s the infamous scene where she has sado-masochistic sex with a cop (digs her spike heals into his thighs while sodomizing him with a night stick) which is filmed like a typical 1980s hair metal band video. However the most important sex scene of the story—the one where Laughlin & Turner have sex that supposedly is so earth shaking that it changes the course of both of their lives—is shown only in silhouette. At the moment of real emotional truth Russell totally wimps out with bad shadow puppetry. This is another example of my problem with sex in movies or mass entertainment: its always about sado masochism or fetishes, be it a classic movie like LAST TANGO IN PARIS, a lame cumstain like NINE & A HALF WEEKS, a bad coffee table book like Madonna’s SEX or this cinematic gibberish. I would’ve given Russell points for daring had he showed the scene where the 2 leads fall in love—it didn’t even have to be explicit, just shots of the actors faces would’ve done. Sure Laughlin can’t act but he’d stunk up the screen up to that point anyhow, why not show his face during coitus? Turner certainly could’ve pulled off the scene. Trying to show real intimacy, even if you fail at it, is daring. Depicting yet another S&M and fetish scene was old hat even back in 1984.

Of course the main problem is with Ken Russell himself. CRIMES OF PASSION was only his second American film (after 1980s ALTERED STATES) & the first in which he tried to make some sort of comment on American society. His tone deafness to American culture is painfully obvious. The mix & match exaggerated American accents are hard to listen to & sound like Europeans on a bad variety show trying to be Americans (although the cast is all American & includes Bruce Davidson & Annie Potts). None of the actors seem comfortable with their lines & appear to be reading cue cards. Russell directs the actors in an exaggerated & “stagey” manner that could’ve worked if he continued with the absurdist & comedic strains of the film but mixed in with the cheesy pseudo noirish aspects of the story & the hilariously sophomoric social commentary it all just falls flat. Maybe, just maybe, if Russell had a leading man who could act, a real film score composer & a producer who could’ve reigned in Russell’s more juvenile excesses this could’ve worked but as it is, CRIMES OF PASSION is just a relic & a prime example of a bad 1980s erotic thriller late night cable fodder.

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[deleted]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"All of your criticisms are irrelevent since this movie is a low-budget camp film. If you thought that this film was being approached by the makers with 100% seriousness, then I think you may have missed something... did you hear some of Anthony Perkin's lines? "

Sooo if something is crap then it can't be criticized because it's deemed crap? Russell is/was a serious director who at one time made worthy films.

"Oh, and you lost me twice in your "critique". 1)You used the word "sophomoric". Ugh. People lose a lot of credibility when they use that word. 2) This film rarely gets shown on late night cable, if at all."

Well it's not my fault if you haven't access to a dictionary & don't know what the word "sophmoric" means. As you obviously have internet access I suggest you look it up. You may find its definition meaningful to you.

As for my remark about "late night cable fodder"--I simply meant that CRIMES OF PASSION resembles one of those lousy Skinomax late night flicks. And this film DOES play on TMC & Showtime in the (very) late night hours.

"Also, it might interest you to know that of all the movies Kathleen Turner has done, this one is her favorite. When it's all said and done, Crimes of Passion is a camp classic with a worthy cult following."

1) Ms. Turner isn't exactly known as a great intellect or great thesbian.

2) Camp film perhaps. Camp means that the makers INTENDED the film to be good but ended up with crap. See also SHOWGIRLS & VALLEY OF THE DOLLS.

3) what is a "worthy cult following"? Is there such thing as a film with an "unworthy" cult following? Please give a list of films with "unworthy" cult followings--I'd be more than interested in renting them!






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[deleted]

JW, feel better lol? Sheesh.

Most of the reasons you cited are why I still, to this day, LOVE this movie. It is not grounded in any sense of reality, with the exception of the marriage. Everything else is overblown and for shock value. BUT...it works. Barry Sandler, the writer, blew me away. With all the double-entendres he used, I assume he adapted the film from some longtime novelist. Nope. Sandler fed Turner some great one-liners and she GOT INTO IT. She held nothing back as the character.

Now, I first saw this when I was 13. As a boy, it was a sleaze-fest full of gratuitious sex and cartoon violence. But as I got older, got married, had kids, it spoke to me in such a different way. About how marriages go stale, the silly fights therein, and having to think of the kids. But also the ride you go on of starting your life over on your own and the new people you meet.

I took the things that made no sense---why is she a hooker? What the hell's that music video of the bride and groom? Stabbing a blow-up doll with a vibrator???---for what they were. Tricked out interludes of the character's psychosis. There ARE people like that in the world, who's minds aren't all "there". And with the safety of it at a distance in a movie, it was DAMN interesting to watch.

Oh, and the score. I have it on disc and still play the hell out of it. But I like synth scores. Sexy saxophone, dark, haunting keyboard work. Sultry tones added to the murky, flashing-light feel of seedy downtown LA. Like the stuff with the cop, or the dying man, Wakeman added to Turner's turning point of realizing she didn't need that life. My favorite film of hers.

Long live Crimes of Passion.

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Did you know its to make its world premiere on stage at the Edinburgh festival this August? Its from the same company that brought Reservoir Dogs & The Usual Suspects to the stage....

Im playing the Grady character! ( John Laughlin )........

Long live the humour.

JR

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I love the OP getting owned and the misspelling of "sophomoric". Which, yes, is so cheesy. It's vocab 101, and yes... critics despise that term.


Serious question here though.


I didn't see any stunt nipples listed in the credits, are I to assume those are KT's?



http://us.imdb.com/name/nm2339870/

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That IS the correct spelling of "sophomoric".

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WAKEMAN SLEPT THROUGH THIS SCORE.

I like wakeman, particularly the later years of Yes while he was with them. However, this score is nothing more than an electronic transcription of Dvorak's "New World Symphony." I remember waiting at the end to see if there was any credit to Dvorak. None. Total rip off. Frankly, Dvorak might not have been dead long enough at the time this was made but that his family/estate would have a lawsuit available for the blatant plagiarism.

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Correction: This is NOT Kathleen Turner's favorite film she has done. She NEVER said or implied that. What she DID say was that it was her favorite/best performance because she worked her ass off!

Having said that, I don't think it is a great film by any means, however, it does have its merits. The screenplay is gutsy and bold and (after having listened to the screenwriter's commentary) I feel that there was an interesting vision there. Whether or not that vision was executed well is up to each viewer. And I do think that this is definitely one of Kathleen Turner's boldest, bravest performances to date. She really invested herself in this character and it shows. It's interesting that she's always been very adept at playing roles that involve acting within acting. The duplicity of her character is really fascinating.

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[deleted]

I have read that interview before, pliegeoi, as well as several others. This particular article does NOT contain any quotes from Kathleen herself saying 'this is my favorite movie.' It is the interviewer who SAYS that Kathleen said this was her favorite. In all of the other interviews with KT where she mentions this film she always says it's 'not a great movie,' but it is her 'best screen acting.'

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[deleted]

Here, here pliegeoi! This film has b*!ls AND t!ts!

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It's a Ken Russell movie. His movies (even the "respectable" ones like Women In Love) take place in their own weird little fantasy world. Crimes of Passion, Lair of the White Worm, Valentino, Salome's Last Dance, whatever. You either like them or you don't, and I love them.

I reckon there are different levels of cult filmmakers. Like, a lot of people can get into David Lynch or Luis Bunuel; less can get into Ken Russell or Peter Greenaway; less again can get into Frank Henenlotter or Ruggero Deodato; and on and on until you get to, I don't know, Jesus Franco or Bruno Mattei or somebody.

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Bravo, sexy dancer, my thoughts exactly.

I was going to suggest they view LAIR OF THE WHITE WORM, GOTHIC or THE RAINBOW before providing a criticism of CRIMES OF PASSION.

I love Mr. Russell's art and his every film is a different genre to the next but all exist inside that little fantasy world - weird, perverse and sexy as hell.

And among the other cult filmmakers you mentioned, sexy d., was Frank Henenlotter - bravo, again! BRAIN DAMAGE - one of the wildest tales ever put on film.

My favorite cult director, though, is David Cronenberg. Not many people see his films and even less people "get" them. He is a true auteur in that his films are all of the same vision, like Russell's, living in their own world.

And to answer the subject question: Yes, I watched it last Sunday - first time for many years (since I rented it on Beta video!) - and figuratively slapped my self upside the head for not buying the DVD sooner.

Other Ken Russells in my collection: ALTERED STATES, THE LAIR OF THE WHITE WORM.
To get list: TOMMY.
Wish they'd release it list: THE DEVILS, GOTHIC, THE RAINBOW, WHORE.

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sexy dancer said "It's a Ken Russell movie. His movies (even the "respectable" ones like Women In Love) take place in their own weird little fantasy world. Crimes of Passion, Lair of the White Worm, Valentino, Salome's Last Dance, whatever. You either like them or you don't, and I love them.

I reckon there are different levels of cult filmmakers. Like, a lot of people can get into David Lynch or Luis Bunuel; less can get into Ken Russell or Peter Greenaway; less again can get into Frank Henenlotter or Ruggero Deodato; and on and on until you get to, I don't know, Jesus Franco or Bruno Mattei or somebody."

Then you get into the Panic Movement directors and all is lost! I love the Kens, which for me are Russell and Anger, I love Greenaway too...but you have to be a certain kind of people to enjoy them. I like movies that take chances, are over the top, that might not even make sense at times (like 3 Women, which I just watched and that was an Altman film), I just enjoy fun and challenging film.

I love Russell's word. The Devils is one of my favorites, along with Gothic and Salome's Last Dance. I bought Crimes of Passion and Altered States on DVD for cheap because I had never seen those films and I am glad I got the uncensored Crimes of Passion, because the nightstick scene is interesting bizarre.

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I really enjoyed your critique even though I disagreed with most of it. It's not that your observations are bad, but I've always looked on Ken Russell's films in the same way I look at Dario Argento's...they both exist in a weird universe, almost the same as ours, but slightly off somehow. All of them. They all have an odd, dreamy quality to them (at least to me) and so I never take them too seriously. I just let myself be washed over by whatever it is he's putting out there.

Lair of the White Worm (while in substance is about as far removed as can be from Crimes) is a complimentary film to Crimes of Passion in that things that seem impossible happen and everyone just accepts that they do. Russel is a very visceral director I think, less intellectual and more Id driven. I love it. I am waiting with baited breath for the DVD release of The Devils. It's my favorite of his films. Crimes is only in the top 5 or so of his movies.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

"it was like a confirmation that in fact the movie WAS just created to be a cheap wank-fest."

If it quacks like a duck...

"if it's kicked around for 20, 30 or 70 years and people still wanna see it...then there must be SOMETHING to it, right?"

That "something" could just be hype.

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If it quacks like a duck...

...it could be the killer from The New York Ripper!

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You, sir or madam, are a pretentious snob. Mr. Russell was a fine, fine director, and this is one of his great films. No point to the story? How about that people in general are just so messed up? The film's examination of Bobby's marriage falling apart wasn't as believable in 1984 as it is today, when situations like theirs are just too painfully common.

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have I seen this LATELY??? Watched it on TV last night.

When you look away this signature is in spanish



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same here.
only a bit...in the middle somewhere...
i never saw Turner NOT being a prostitute...
and i thought...it moved along oddly....enough
to warrant an imdb...lookup.

it seems to stand on its own well...
whatever that means!

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FAR better than the characters, above, claim, who spit their negativity at it, playing their very dull unsensual games of ego, attempting to dominate a work of some art by most of the principals involved, who produced a very well-written, well-acted, well-directed and entertaining examination of some of the compulsions of some of the sexual psyches of homo sapiens.

~ Native Angeleno

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Yeah, I watched this on TV last night. I missed the beginning. It's a pretty gutsy movie by Kathleen Turner. I really didn't understand why Joanne did it and what the priest was on about but I nonetheless, I could not tear my eyes away from it..

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I saw this for the first time the other night and laughed myself stupid. As a Perkins fan, it was somewhat difficult to watch him battle the insanity of the script, but what he's able to do with his character is magical to watch and about the only redeeming feature of this film - there's a scene where he sniffs Turner's lipstick as though he's expecting an amyl-esque high (as per the vial he's snorts in earlier scenes)... oh, and the bit where he breaks into Judy Garland at the end is totally inappropriate and therefore hilarious... but his discomfort seems obvious, even through his total immersion in the character; the "you're the head of your class" line, for example, seems to (literally, almost?) stick in his throat, but who can blame him? And I won't even talk about the shameless similarities between the climactic scenes of this film and the Perkins' classic Psycho.

Regardless, I found Crimes Of Passion the perfect embodiment of the "so-bad-it's-good" genre... and as it turns out, it was written by Barry Sandler, who also wrote the "so-bad-it's-bad" Making Love. At least there's some sort of consistency, I guess.

I don't want more choice. I just want nicer things!
Eddie Monsoon
Absolutely Fabulous

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I agree with you.
When I first saw it, Turner was a turn-on (no pun intended).
Now, 20 years on, the John Laughlin person gets in the way of what it might have been. He is truly AWFUL. A bit like Michael Caine playing an English aristocrat (too often).
You reckon JL might have been screwing the casting director. I reckon he paid Russell so that he could do the shadow play with Turner.
There are very few truly erotic scenes on film. The scene in "The Name of the Rose" between the novice priest and the girl; Robert Donat & Madeleine Carroll, tied together while she tries to remove her stockings.
Perhaps a good kiss works best - after all, India Knight, a highly respected journalist, in her short story, "First Base" writes that one great kiss is - quote " ...worth a dozen *beep*

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I DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!


Best line of the movie.

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Yep, still watch it at least once a year, just keeps getting better and better.

After being married and divorced, that section of the film REALLY is impressively on-target stuff. The performances are still wildly over-the-top (but entertaining), and some scenes incoherent, but three very lost characters make up for it. Though as the years have gone on, John Laughlin's acting abilities become more and more stiff.

And I know I'm alone in it...but Wakeman's score makes A LOT of the scenes work even better. Long live 80s synth!

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i think the film is what i'd call great and it can be pretty ridiculus and i didn't think the sex was hot (for me personally) but i found it watchable andi wasn't bored. you could never call this film boring.

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"you could never call this film boring."

Ha! I just did.

I was practically falling asleep after the first hour.

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