MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983) Discussion > I think audiences wanted a darker story ...

I think audiences wanted a darker story then what they got


When "Return" came out, it had been six years since the original StarWars. Like many original fans, I had matured quite a bit in those years. So when Return came out, I was ready for a more darker and dramatic story.

It certainly started out well. With the scenes in Jabba's palace, Leia in a skimpy outfit, and strong hints of sexuality. There was a dark and ominous storyline developing, regarding the conflict between Vader and Luke.

Then suddenly the story switched to something similar to a G-rated Disney movie. And I am referring to what I both then and now called "those damn silly teddy-bears".

Did Lucas intend to write a darker story, but was then pressured by the studio to make it more "kid friendly"? I have read the novelization, and if it was closer to George's original vision, then the movie would have been much more dramatic and adult.

I think they blew a perfect opportunity to move the StarWars saga into a more mature and emotionally satisfying direction. Trying to appeal to six-year-olds by introducing the Ewoks backfired badly. I remember most members of the audience giggling at the Ewoks. Not because they were funny, but because they were so silly.

"Empire" is today from all I've read considered the best of all the movies. I think that's because it pushed the first story and characters into new territory. Growing the characters emotionally, as people do in real life.

Unfortunately, when a movie becomes a blockbuster, you start to get studio interference. The "marketing boys" are concerned more about selling tickets, then about making good movies. I strongly suspect there was pressure to do something to make the movie more "kid-friendly" and tame. That's why they put in the Ewoks.

Opinions?



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Gary Kurtz, who produced ANH and TESB, claims that there was a 'darker' and more nuanced finale planned, but Lucas threw it out and opted for the big happy ending. He claims that toy sales were a big factor as well as the success of Indiana Jones. Lucas' friend John Milius also claims that George had spoken of setting up a huge toy empire to make money, although I suspect Lucas was being ironic (the dude's funnier than folks give him credit for!).

Certainly Lucas was financing his own movies, so he may have felt some serious commercial pressure since Kurtz had gone over budget on TESB.

My guess, and it can only ever be a guess, is that Lucas simply wanted to adhere to his original vision of Star Wars as a fun thrill ride for kids and possibly overcompensated with the Ewoks and the teddy bear picnic. TESB was obviously darker and deeper than its predecessor, but I think George wanted to bring it all back into the light so to speak, rather than opt for the bittersweet finale that Kurtz was hoping for. Lucas wanted to preserve the 'fairy tale' aspect.

Personally I was (and remain) disappointed with ROTJ (I referred to it as 'Return Of the Merchandi' when it came out!). Like you I think it was a missed opportunity, but I guess it's a matter of taste.

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I do think Lucas started to let marketing and merchandising affect his creative choices (namely using the Ewoks).

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Kid friendly element is a crutch and a oversimplication of all this movies problems

1. Nuanced villiany fell out the window with palpatine. Palpatine is a one dimensional cartoon villian whose only motivation was power. In empire strikes back vader was much more complex and much more nuanced. Vader became secondary and thus less interesting. In gary version not only was vaders redemption much more nuanced and better. Palpatine felt like a lazy backdoor villian to create a quick forgiveness for vaders sins.

2. Skywalker overwhelming the storyline...In empire, new hope and TFA not only were the skywalkers In their proper place...but often times they were merely plot devices. In this film han and leia had a ZERO SUM stake in this fight. This film set the template for *beep* jedi plotlines...one temper tantrum away from being a psychopath apparently.

3. The first half of this film sucks balls. Not only because Jabba palace doesn't really move the characters foward. But because the point of the palace was to save han solo. Han solo contributes nothing to the plot...literally nothing. And yet we are forced to sit through a rescue

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Palpatine had a scene in Empire though

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From what I've read, the sequences in Jabba's Palace are pretty much what Gary Kurtz had in mind when they worked on the initial outline for Return of the Jedi. Which is why the Jabba scenes feel like a totally different movie from the Ewok scenes.

I don't think they've ever released the entire Gary Kurtz version of the outline. Bits and pieces have come out over the years. For example, no Ewoks. Han would have died (as Harrison Ford wanted). Luke and Leia would not have been siblings. Vader would have died outright fighting Luke, instead if being redeemed.

Most importantly, the story wouldn't have ended with ROTJ. If Gary Kurtz had his way, we would have gotten the "Sequel Trilogy", 30 years ago. It seems that George Lucas was no longer interested in Star Wars at that point and just wanted to put it behind him.

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Not to mention George wanted a VII, VIII, and IX at one point and then decided against it. A happier Jedi ending reveals George wanted Darth's storyline to end.

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This article pretty much sums it up: https://popcultmaster.com/2015/12/16/body-horror/

It also contains an internet review from 1984, when the closest thing to an IMDB was net.movies (courtesy of Usenet).

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Star Wars became too much like the Muppet show for me by this point. The original film had the weird creatures and aliens at the cantina but it was only a few minute sequence and most of them were in the background. Same goes for the brief appearance of the Jawas.

Empire just had Yoda and a brief appearance of the Wampa, and Yoda was written better than a lot of human characters in fantasy films. So basically despite being space operas set on different planets, Star Wars and Empire were still pretty much human stories with just the droids and Chewie along for the ride. By the time we get to Jedi, we have Jabba and all the creatures and aliens at his palace and they dominate the film for about 30 minutes. Then we have the ewoks, the Mon Calamaris, Nien Nunb... They lost that human touch for me, made even worse by the fact that Han and Leia were pushed more into the background, and most of the ewok scenes are full of comedy.

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