Q was terrible in this film - Never Say Never Again (1983) Discussion

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

This Q was down right annoying.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

reply

[–] ThingyBlahBlah3 13 years ago

Did you just catch this on USA too? This Q is very different from the guy we know and love from the 'real' Bonds, and I don't know that I would have wanted to see him in 20+ movies. However, I do hold "Now I hope we're going to have some gratuitous sex and violence" as one of my favorite lines in all filmdom.

_____________________
'It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?'
'If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.'

reply

[–] SpankyMagooEsq 13 years ago

However, I do hold "Now I hope we're going to have some gratuitous sex and violence" as one of my favorite lines in all filmdom.

I wouldn't have a problem with that line if it came from someone else, but that's as far out of character from the traditional Q as it gets.

reply

[–] ossome2442 13 years ago

You do have to admire the cajones they had, to give the official Bond movies such a blatant "screw you" with that line. My admiration for that makes the line a little bit more tolerable (in my own mind at least).

I rather liked Baines. We shared the same bootmaker.

reply

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

Why does a lame pot shot take cajones?

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

reply

[–] ossome2442 13 years ago

OK, granted, maybe it wouldn't have taken as much cajones back then. I can't help but picture what might have happened had NSNA been made today though. If IMDb is any indication, every single fanboy on every single one of these Internet comment/message boards would have been storming the village with pitchforks and torches.

I rather liked Baines. We shared the same bootmaker.

reply

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

I don't know. I thought the line was terrible, but certainly not offensive to my love of the rest of the Bond series. In fact, I thought it was a rather foolish potshot inspired by the behind the scenes fiasco that is Kevin McClory's lawsuit, and it really made his side look a bit petty.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

reply

[–] ossome2442 13 years ago

...and it really made his side look a bit petty.

There we are. That's probably more what I meant to articulate. Personally, my love for the series wasn't pushed either by the line (and I'm perhaps being a bit cynical in thinking that the line offended fans). Just the fact that McClory and friends definitely wanted to offend/put off *someone* with that line - i.e EON, and with little cause to do so now that he had gotten his movie - struck me as pure thinking-with-the-balls.

I rather liked Baines. We shared the same bootmaker.

reply

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

BUT, I never really even put that much thought into it before I had this discussion with you. I merely thought it was a silly line. Anyhow, I don't think being petty requires balls. Lots of folks I like have acted petty before...Richard Donner about Superman II, David Fincher about Alien 3, etc. There comes a time to get over it and take the high road. Donner came off as quite petty sounding at times in his interviews and commentaries on his version of Superman II. Fincher refused to return and work on the Assembly Cut of Alien 3. I mean, after all these years if you are afforded an opportunity to return to a once flawed project, suck it up and do it for the fans rather than punish them by denying them your involvement. As for Superman II, I am glad Donner finally got involved, but he could have left his petty comments at the door. It was a long time ago, so focus on the good and exciting chance to release the new version in the best form possible. The Lester hate resulted in too much of an emphasis on cutting as much Lester footage as possible, which resulted in an ultimately weaker presentation of the alternate version. McClory had a long ugly battle that resulted in very little. Right or wrong, make the most of what you got to do rather than dragging it down with such things as a badly designed potshot.

Sorry if I got off topic a bit.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

reply

[–] ossome2442 13 years ago

Well, can't argue with any of that. LIke I said, maybe "balls" gave the wrong idea. In a similar situation to the examples you gave though, with the Bond franchise on a rapid decline as it was in the 80s, I just found it odd that McClory would take an opportunity to revitalize the franchise and use it to completely blast what came before it - and in so doing, risk the wrath of the fans who have come to expect the usual disapproving Q.

In the movie's defense though, obviously not every fan is as paranoid about the line - maybe I'm just bad with change! Also, to be fair, the rest of the movie keeps to the franchise mechanics pretty faithfully. Just a matter of me needing to keep a more open mind, I suppose.

I rather liked Baines. We shared the same bootmaker.

reply

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

It actually would have been pretty cool had Never Say Never again actually managed to be the better Bond film that year rather than Octopussy. I'll be honest in saying that both films are extremely weak efforts, but the only thing that saved Octopussy and propelled it ahead of NSNA was the traditional Bond elements such as Moore and Q, Barry's score, and big stunt work and lush production value. It's far better looking than the cheap NSNA. But imagine if NSNA had managed to actually be a great film despite the absence of all that, much like Casino Royale would do so many years later? But many bad choices were made along the way. Having Sean Connery return may not have been the best idea at that point. I have heard some suggest that George Lazenby return, and I think that might have been interesting. I know that all McClory had rights to was the storyline of Thunderball and Specter, but it seems that a better film could have been fashioned out of it than the mundane adventure that we got. Ultimately, the ONLY thing the movie had going for it was Barbara Carrera. If one is going to include a potshot, at least be sure that your movie can actually compare to the series it seeks to outdo. In my opinion, NSNA fell way short of the mark with a cheap looking production value, bad music, a jarringly weird new cast, unexciting stunts, a video game duel, etc. There was simply no reason for so much to be wrong with the film. EON got the last laugh because they made a bit more money and they continued on their merry way with no problem at all.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

reply

[–] ossome2442 13 years ago

Long story short, this movie simply should not have been made. EON managed a barely passable Bond adventure with Octopussy, and McClory should have taken the hint and left well enough alone. Oh well. It's here, it has a mean streak against the main series, and I guess there's no changing it now. It still gets included in my Bond marathons, traditional Q or no.

I rather liked Baines. We shared the same bootmaker.

reply

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

Over the last year, my best friend and I had a Bond marathon...one movie every other week. When we got to 1983, we thought it would be fun to watch never Say Never Again and Octupussy back to back, just like they were released. I can say with all honesty that this was a low point in our marathon.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

reply

[–] Jabba_The_Timelord 13 years ago

I think everyone would have loved this version of Q if he weren't Q - I think it'd be hilarious to have Q on leave, and have his substitute encourage all of Bond's semantics.

reply

[–] TheSolarSailor 13 years ago

However, I do hold "Now I hope we're going to have some gratuitous sex and violence" as one of my favorite lines in all filmdom. >>> I don't like that line at all, as it takes me right out of the film and makes it feel like this Q is a Sean Connery fan.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

reply

[–] wez655321 13 years ago

I enjoy this film and appreceate the characters in it.

The only way to have the old Q would be to have the same actor perform in it, since that wasn`t going to happen we get a different Q, Algy, some good comic relief. I never read anything else into it, just comic relief.

Same with M, different actor playing the role, it doesn`t have to be the Bernard Lee's M, use your imagination, its the same job title but a different guy.

reply

[–] Prismark10 13 years ago

Q was more earthy here!

Its that man again!!

reply

[–] wallacesawyer 13 years ago

I was never bothered. Course he's barely in the film.

http://www.freewebs.com/demonictoys/

reply

[–] planetmutty 12 years ago

Edward Fox was dreadful in this, the overblown exaggerated accent really gets on my nerves. Hard to believe he is the same actor who was so superb in The Day of The Jackal.

When I said I wanted to be a comedian, they all laughed at me. Well, they're not laughing now!

reply

[–] psychocosmic-1 12 years ago

People take the oddity of them making 2 Bond films in 1983 too seriously! On Bond boards people and fans are so much baffled and angry. After a decade of Moore Bonds and light comedy and fantasy adventures, I remember about half of the Bond lovers STILL thought a lot about Connery and missed him no matter what! Even if NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN is very much a Connery Fan Film, as the title suggests, more important as a Connery film than a Bondfilm, there were of course other factors bringing this film alive than the fan reason!

People are really hating it now, BUT in 1983, there was another response! Tired of Moore and all comedy, many longed for Bond with real acting, so NEVER shows an example of great acting from Connery (Massage scene) who always does things with his role no other Bond actor does, also, Brandauer and Carreras are worth watching alone! Of course its sad, with no Bond theme or great music (they could at least fixed a great score!) and a tiny finale tthat doesnt satifie anyone: BUT many, including me, voted this film ABOVE Octopussy back in the 1983!

In retrospect, of course, Octopussy is a very well made, well produced Bond film, BUT I think, NEVER, although, quite dated, has the things Octopussy lacks. One thing though, NEVER does not really take itself seriously (again! Like Diamonds Are Forever!) Which is a huge mistake especially for younger fans. But it did satisfie an audience who knew this was a ONE time Bond, AND the very LAST time for Connery! The word NEVER in the title becomes both the meaning of Connery returning as Bond, as well as He is NEVER coming back again! Believe me, that brought a tear in many eyes when we left the theater! That is how much we cared about Connery, asn an actor, as a person and as an icon!

Imagine the shock in society when The Beatles announced their break-up! It was like your best friends or your parents separating, people who had followed you along all the way from the 1960´s to the 70´s! Something great wasnt there anymore. Then, imagine, they make an extra live performance ten years after the the break-up! Would we care if they didnt peformed as well as in their heydays? No! But that would certainly make people cry! Thats what NEVER is about I think!

reply

[–] domester82 12 years ago

Maybe he wasn't Q at all. Maybe Algy was just an assistant or something, and Llwellyn's Q was on holiday?

Perhaps Edward Fox's M was a temporary replacement for Bernard Lee's M (he makes reference to his predecessor), and he was replaced by Robert Brown (possibly a promoted Admiral Hargreaves) sometime before Octopussy.

If you really want to try to shoehorn NSNA into the canon, that is! If we can accept that Bond fought two Largos (maybe Maximillian was Emilio's brother?), both of them with a mistress named Domino.

Also, if you wanted to wedge this into canon, it would have to take place before FYEO (where Blofeld apparently dies).

Still, I watch NSNA when I have my Bond marathons. It counts. It has a proper Bond (Connery). Casino Royale (1967, and 1954), and David Niven and Barry Nelson do not count!

reply

[–] MurphAndTheMagicTones 12 years ago

Maybe he wasn't Q at all. Maybe Algy was just an assistant or something, and Llwellyn's Q was on holiday?

No, he called himself Q in the film. They designed him to be the opposite of Llewellyn's Q, who was always annoyed and never impressed with Bond.

---
"Is this a courting or a donnybrook?"---Michaleen Flynn, The Quiet Man

reply

[–] Tommy_B_Goode 12 years ago

I'm sorry but i disagree with drewza89. All of Moore's installments were way better than this one. Hell, even craig's ones are better (it really hurts me to have to say that)

! CLIVE OWEN FOR JAMES BOND !

reply

[–] PeterBlues (790) 4 years ago

exactly, he's like the opposite of q's usual personality, instead of being annoyed with bond and his manners he actually encourages it, and though max von sydow is great in other roles, he doesn't come off as a threatening or intimidating blofeld, of course there's only one memorable moneypenny and they should have kept her after 1985, but that's where i stop watching the bond franchise anyway, john glen ruined the franchise in the 1987 with all the changes, the actress playing the main bond girl in this had more star quality later in her career, and largo is more annoying than threatening, there is some good casting in this though, like fatima blush, a neat thing having comedian rowan atkinson in a part, felix and of course, sean connery, i see some topics on this board about another un official movie like this, the problem with that is both moore and connery have passed on, and they're the only ones people most commonly wants to see in the role, if moore hadn't returned one last time in 1985 the two famous bonds would've retired at the same time in two different movies. it would be neat though to see lazenby or dalton returning as an older bond, i guess they would have to change it from action to more detective like.

⛰ 🏍 ⛵️ 🏖 😾 🦈 🎮 💃🕺⛴ 🐫 🐎 ✈️

gave an american woman my love,
got a truckload in return,
left home grounds,
to understand what its about,
went from inside reached out,
so used to people into their own selfs,
caught in your play,
killing me with kindness.

reply