MovieChat Forums > Never Say Never Again (1983) Discussion > Question: Did Sean ever ask Roger for hi...

Question: Did Sean ever ask Roger for his blessing?

posted 9 years ago by hal-9010
7 replies | jump to latest

I know that Sean and Roger are friends but I find it kind of a dick-move for Connery to move back in on Bond, when Roger was the master still. I am quite sure Broccoli did not like it.

So I was wondering if there was some feud because of this or if Connery asked Roger for his approval before accepting the role?

Anyone knows something about this? Perhaps Roger talked about this in one of his books?

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] EmpireKing 9 years ago

There was never any feud between Moore and Connery over it.

I think Connery did play Bond again in part for the money and creative control, and in part just to piss off Broccoli because of their past feud. Whatever is was it was never to do with any rivalry with him and Moore.

Connery even wanted Moore to appear at the end of the movie to bump into him and say "Never say never again".

At the time of release in an interview in the UK, Connery basically said something along the lines of, he and Roger been good friends since the 60's and that he'd told Roger just before he went off to the bahamas and Roger went to India that the press might try and make it into a stupid personal rivalry between them but to not buy into it and give them any ammuntion, and that they didn't and just ignored it. They were still mixing with each other when filming the interiors of their movies in London. At the premiere when asked "who will win?" Connery just replied with "The audience will determine that".

On the commentary of Octopussy, Roger says he was glad that it outgrossed Never Say Never Again, not because of any rivalry with Connery because he's a good friend but he was happy for Broccoli's success that his movie didn't lose to Kevin McClory's.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

Thank you for the lesson. Very interesting.

I have since found another explanation why my question is sort of irrelevant: Roger Moore had more or less quit the role after “For Your Eyes Only” and they were searching for a new actor. Then “Never Say Never Agian” was announced. Since Broccolli knew a new Bond would have little chance against Connery he made Roger Moore an offer he could not refuse. So in a way, it was opposite of what I thought. Moore apparently got a great deal for Octopussy because of “Never Say never Again” and in this light, one might say, Connery did him a favour. What do you think? This has merits?

Anyway, I like the idea that they have each other’s back. I am also glad Octopussy "won" the box office. IMO an overall better performance, and part of me hated that Connery went back, I gotta say. Though in light of what I have learned above, it seemed to be for the better.... and not least, makes "Never Say Never Again" more interesting for sure.

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] EmpireKing 9 years ago

You have a point but as I understand it, Moore's Bond contract was over with The Spy Who Loved Me. It was a three movie contract, and from then his contract was negotiated from movie to movie.

After the camp and over the top nature of Moonraker they pulled it back in For Your Eyes Only and apparently were considering the likes of Lewis Collins in the role but went back to Moore who didn't sign until the last minute.

Then after Octopussy they could have gone for someone younger but still went back to Moore again for A View To A Kill. Despite it's flaws, I still like that movie and I like Roger in it but he was too old and he and Broccoli admitted it.

Unlike Connery and Broccoli, he and Moore were very close and remained so until his death. So you could argue with that, as well as what Moore's movies were competing with from the late 70's (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Mad Max movies, Rambo movies etc)would have made his tenure as long as it was anyway, with or without Connery making this. Maybe Broccoli and MGM wanted to cling to the safe and familiar amongst the new wave of action movies and would have kept waving the huge contracts in front of him.

Some people didn't/don't care for Moore's tongue in cheek approach and some of the camp elements in his movies but they never stopped raking in the profits.

I can see both sides of it.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

I do not understand the trash I often hear about Roger Moore. It is usually based upon two things, his age and the apparent campier feel to his movies. Both are unfair, imo.

CAMPY was already there before Moore took the realms. “Diamonds Are Forever”, is rivaling that of "Moonraker" (even more imo), and “You Only Live Twice” is not far off. Now, I have nothing against this but when the classic comparison to who was the better Bond, people tend to forget that even though Connery made some of the best ("Dr No" and "From Russia with Love", and in many people’s eyes (not mine) also "Goldfinger") he too made some questionable, where I think “Diamonds Are Forever” is near the bottom of them all. Moore on the other hand had all solids; if one analyses the Bond in them, the story etc. they all work. “A View to a Kill” has one older Bond indeed, but the story works and the Bond we see is cold and calculated like never before, wonderful. He paired up with a much younger gal and this was perhaps a bit too ambitious, but apart from that I thought then as well as now that it holds. "Moonraker" is often mentioned as one of his worst, but upon rewatch i think this is not fair at all either, not at all.. I can go on and on, but one thing is that the Bond in "Moonraker" shows us more detective work than ever seen before (unlike Goldfinger, where he pretty much gets caught and then is just being there...).

Whomever we grew up with matters a lot. And I started with Moore, so I would be a fool not to accept this as part of my favoritism. And of course Connery is great and he did help establish the personification we love to day. He was different, he was tough and he connected with male and female audience alike. Without him, perhaps no franchise and thus a completely different take on action movies in general in this day. I salute him for his part in cinema history. However, if scrutinized I think only three of his seven Bonds films are in the top.

The Moore Bond we first meet in Live And Let Die is in my opinion spot on - portrayed with such class, finesse, ruthless determinism and mysticism and yet also oddly grounded. I believe we see the same Bond in "The Man with the Golden Gun" and to a degree also in "The Spy Who Loved Me". He simply does it to perfection. One tough SOB, which the general public for some reason forgets. He has some of the most cold blooded moments of all the Bonds...the Connery Bond in “Dr No” and “From Russia with love” are equally great of course.

Yes, Moore was OLD during his last two movies especially. But there is one thing that is often forgotten in this critique. Back then there were only really two James Bond. Now a day we start speculating who the next Bond will be even right off the bat with a new actor. Back then it was unthinkable that anyone but the two greats could or should ever be him. So when he was aged in his later installments it was not a problem. Back then it was perfectly natural, as we after all had lived with him for over a decade at the time. The age thing, I dare say, is argued in retro perspective and not at the time. I certainly never gave it a second thought back in the day. Roger Moore was James Bond, and that was not questioned. If anything, he was not too old for the Bond girl in “A View To A Kill”.... She was too young for him. All in all, I wouldn’t have it any other way. Roger Moore was Bond until he was not. And it was not until Dalton it really became obvious, that the character lives on, no matter who might play him.

So to summarize: Yes his movies have some campy elements. But so did Cannery’s (and even Lazenby's) and the cinema history in his time (70'es and 80'ies) wouldn’t have it any other way. And yes he was aged towards the end, but the best reply is really; "Of course he was". And as you say, the profits tells us that I was not alone in this view...

Forgive my rant 🎥

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] EmpireKing 9 years ago

I do not understand the trash I often hear about Roger Moore

Me neither, he's my favourite Bond.

Campy was already there before Moore took the reins

Agreed. Connery has said the same thing himself.

He has some of the most cold blooded moments of all the Bonds

Yes. Throwing fuel in a guy's eyes and then making sure the boat he's on blows up.

Nonchalantly knocking a guy from the roof who has just give him the information he needs.

Standing watching as a guy is on the edge of the cliff in his car before helping it on it's way.

Putting four bullets in Stromberg including two in his nuts.

I love that bullet straight in between the Russian's eyes too in Octopussy.

his movies have some campy elements. But so did Connery's

True. It's not like Moore showed up and dictated the scripts. Also, can you imagine if Roger Moore had worn a jet pack and flew over London like Mary Poppins, or had that ridiculous Japanese disguise, or if an elephant played the slot machine in one of his movies and got three elephants, or if he got his ass kicked by two women called Bambi and Thumper?

Or what about Tiffany Case "You've just killed James Bond!"

So before Roger even arrived, James Bond was a famous secret agent!

I like Connery but he and his Bond movies get cut a lot of slack in that department. Probably because he was the first and also he was much closer to the Bond in the book than Moore. But I don't care about that. I just go by what's on screen and I liked what he brought.

Moore would probably still be slammed if he'd just copied what Connery did. Instead he did it his way, and it was clearly popular not just because of the box office but because after Tim Dalton's harder edged version seemed to divide people, they tried to mould Pierce Brosnan to be closer to Roger.

Even though Roger was getting too old by Octopussy and A View To A Kill, I don't think he ever gave a bored, phoned in performance like Connery did at the latter end of his tenure.

[–] hal-9010 9 years ago

I have nothing to add really. I agree on everything. Since it seems we are of similar opinion, I wonder how would you rate the James bonds and which is in your top 5 Bond movie lists?

___________
** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **

[–] ZombieSquad1986 8 years ago

Nice to see some love for Moore's Bond, he's been my favorite since I was a little kid in the early 80s. I feel like he gets dismissed all too often.

He used to get crap from a lot of the Connery purists and now with Craig's gritty portrayal, Sir Roger's era is looked at as campy and lighthearted.

Yeah, because using a woman as human shield and threatening to break another's arm is textbook camp.

NSNA was the first Bond movie I saw in the theater, but I had already seen some on tv. I liked it then and after watching it today for the first time in a long time, I still enjoyed it as a relic of my childhood.

Although there was apparently no rivalry between the two actors, it can't be denied that Moore won that round.

And if I may play along, my top five James Bond movies:

1. FYEO
2. LALD (was my favorite growing up and still occasionally switches places with FYEO for first place)
3. TSWLM
4. OCTOPUSSY (Tarzan yell notwithstanding)
5. THUNDERBALL

Not everyone's top five, for sure, but one of the things I love about Bond fandom is that as much as we can agree that we love the character and (most of) the movies, we all have different lists for different reasons.