Other Martin Cruz Smith books - Gorky Park (1983) Discussion

[–] clark_gillies 20 years ago

I am in the middle of reading Red Square just now... which is the 3rd of the Renko books... and is just as good as the other ones.

Seems strange why they only made Gorky Park... as the other two as as good as, if not slightly better than, the first one.

reply

[–] SlowRain 20 years ago

"Where is Red Square?"

I enjoyed that book, but felt that Gorky Park was still better. Let us know what you think when you're finished. Just wait until you read Havana Bay. I thought it was the second best in the whole series, but the plot is his most complicated, so pay attention to what's going on.

"The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice." - David Mamet

reply

[–] Newton820 19 years ago

clark gillies wrote ...Seems strange why they only made Gorky Park... as the other two as as good as, if not slightly better than, the first one.

yeah, except for polar star though, too much of a headache to recreate a large ship trapped in a frozen sea. But the others, sure.

One non Renko book I loved, but I cannot remember the title, though the content I can with ease.

Set in a mining town in manchester, following a mining engineer with malaria who seems to plod along tackling adversity after adversity with startling calm. Or maybe it was cruz-smith's lack of character development, I personally prefer the former explanation.

reply

[–] SlowRain 19 years ago

I think the set of the large ship in Polar Star would be easy and inexpensive to recreate, however, the external shots would be a little difficult. I didn't really care for the ending, but it is interesting how he created such a great story in such a confined space.

The title of the other book is Rose. I haven't read it, yet. How was it? Can you tell me a little more.

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

reply

[–] Newton820 19 years ago

'The title of the other book is Rose. I haven't read it, yet. How was it? Can you tell me a little more.'

I really enjoyed it, though it may just have been the mood I was in at the time(a welcome distraction to days of endless, or is that endless days? of revision)

Well, the guy who the story is based is a mining engineer (set in the 19th centruy if I remember rightly). He has returned from work in Africa because he has fallen foul of his employers after getting a local girl pregnant (I cant remember if that is the only reason). He longs to return to her and his child, but is stuck in London with no money and is ill from malaria, to which his only remedy is arsenic, in medicinal form.

To fund his medicine and his return to Africa, he takes, no begs for a job with a previous employer. Which takes him to a coal mine in wigan I think (it is quite a while since I read it!), to investigate a mining accident that claimed a number of lives.

From there he gets caught up in an intricate and confusing mystery, which he must solve because its the only way he can return to his family.
Problem is, trying to solve the mystery is very likely going to cost him his life, but the way he sees it, he has no choice.

reply

[–] SlowRain 19 years ago

Thanks for that. Sounds like all the elements from his Communist Russia novels are there in a 19th century English mystery. I have Stallion Gate, but I haven't read it yet. Maybe I'll have to pick up Rose after I read it.

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

reply

[–] RaguLeader 19 years ago

Well, nowadays, they could just use CGI, blue screen effects, or scale models (scale models would be cool, if they put enough work into them, but CGI would seem more likely nowadays).

Stuff like on the deck of the ship would be easy enough to do in a sound stage, and the stuff belowdecks could be a fun thing to figure out (you can either design two hallways and three rooms, then use different camera angles to make it look like more hallways and rooms, or you could design and build a portion of the innards of the ship and have the camera crew limited to places where a real member of the ship's crew could be standing (using wide-angle lenses to make it look bigger, or normal or telephoto lenses to make it look even more cramped, I'd go for one of the latter effects if it was possible, given the theme of the story).

reply

[–] cmdrdan2001 17 years ago

I would like to see Polar Star done also but I would like a twist, how about it being done in Русский, by Russians... that way it could use a real icebreaker and this time they could speak with genuine Russian accents, which in Gorky park were just plain awful, except at least they didn't try to do accents instead of trying and doing it badly.
Since their are english-speaking roles at some points, it wouldn't look so bad subtitled, or better yet, dubbed in by bilingual Russians.
I remember when Gorky Park was first released, I was a kid then and Russia was still real mysterious to people

reply

[–] ArkadyRenko 20 years ago

Gorky Park
Polar Star
Red Square
Havana Bay
Wolves Eat Dogs

All this books have Arkady Renko as the hero of this stories.

Quotes? We don't need no stinky quotes

reply

[–] SlowRain 20 years ago

Have you tried any of his non-Arkady Renko novels? I have Stallion Gate at home, but I haven't read it yet.

Without giving too much away (because I haven't read it yet), what did you think of Wolved Eat Dogs?

"The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice." - David Mamet

reply

[–] ib011f9545i 19 years ago

I am reading WOLVES EAT DOGS,it is a bit slow but is a good story,HAVANA BAY was also slow but great background.

reply

[–] SlowRain 19 years ago

I am reading WOLVES EAT DOGS,it is a bit slow but is a good story,HAVANA BAY was also slow but great background.

Yeah, but I've never felt that his books were thrillers or page-turners in the generic sense. All of them were slowly and carefully developed.

"The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice." - David Mamet

reply

[–] drwho-6 19 years ago

That makes sense. I started reading Red Square, not realizing it was part of a series. I thought it started out slow, but is really picking up now.

www.billszone.com

reply

[–] SlowRain 19 years ago

I think his Arkady Renko books can be read in any order. The only thing you may not fully understand is the relationship between Arkady and Irina, but, if you like Red Square, you could always go back and read the first one. I think Gorky Park is the best of the series, but I still haven't read Wolves Eat Dogs.

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

reply

[–] clark_gillies 19 years ago

To understand Polar Star, I feel you have to read Gorky Park first.... but Red Square can be read first on its own and still make sence (apart from Irina there is very little reference to Gorky Park, and next to nothing about what happened in Polar Star)

reply

[–] drwho-6 19 years ago

I finished Red Square with no problems understanding what was going on, and have since read Gorky Park, Polar Star, and Havana Bay. working on Wolves eat Dogs right now.

www.billszone.com

reply

[–] Gandalf_the_Red 19 years ago

Just about to read Wolves Eat Dogs

I found reading the books in sequence helps, although Gorky Park is nearly 25 years old and I read the stories when or shortly after they came out and therefore had no option. Russian history has changed considerably over this time and this is reflected in the tone of the stories. I may have to re-read to see how they have dated.

Yes, the books are slow, but build up; but thats the author's style and part of the charm of the stories. If I want a fast reading page turner I'll get Grisham or Patterson. The Renko Stories have far more depth, even than an Alex Cross story.

reply

[–] SlowRain 19 years ago

Wolves Eat Dogs - Martin Cruz Smith

This is the fifth book of Martin Cruz Smith's featuring the cynical, Russian police investigator Arkady Renko. It centers around the apparent suicide of Russia's wealthiest oligarch, who fell 10 stories from his apartment window with a salt shaker in his hand. The investigation takes a twist when a pile of salt is found in his bedroom closet.

First off, I don't often read mysteries, as I find them to be trite and over the top, with the feeling of being phoned-in rather than thoughtfully-written. Martin Cruz Smith is one of the rare exceptions that I have found (he isn't one of those book-a-year kind of writers). His Arkady Renko stories, and this one is no exception, manage to rise above the simple "whodunit", realizing that "who" isn't as important as the lessons that can be learned from "why".

His strengths are: extremely intricate plots, vivid imagery, and crisp, if somewhat abstract, dialogue. There is never a wasted word, and I have seldom read an author who could say so much in so few words. Every scene has a purpose, and closes with a comment or summation that lets the reader know more was going on than just a conversation. His observations about Russia, crime, and people are all delivered with a note of conviction and finesse.

My only real complaint about this book would be Arkady's salvation at the climax. I think Mr. Smith is an accomplished enough writer now, and should be able to present a more satisfying climax. However, one small detail can't ruin the brilliant set-up and commentary of the previous several hundred pages.

Much of this story takes place in the 30km Evacuation Zone surrounding the Chernobyl nuclear facility in Ukraine. Given that April 26, 2006 will be the 20th anniversary of the accident, it is a timely book to read; one that combines actual history with scientific and environmental discussion... and suspense.

I would heartily recommend this book - as well as his landmark mystery novel, Gorky Park - to anyone who likes well-written thrillers.

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

reply

[–] SlowRain 19 years ago

I just finished reading an article in this month's National Geographic (April 2006) about Chernobyl. I found it amazing that the article covered the exact topics discussed in Martin Cruz Smith's novel, only with less detail given the length of the article. Everything mentioned in the article, with the exception of the New Safe Confinement, was in the novel: delayed evacuation, thyroid cancer, wolves, the old people returning, life there now, the environmental recovery, even the cow, the ferris wheel, and icons. The only thing missing was the fictional plot/conspiracy and the mushrooms. Because of this validation of his research, I've gained even higher respect for Martin Cruz Smith and his ability to fully describe and evoke the lifestyle of a culture foreign to my own. I really appreciate it when a novel is not only presented as a distraction from our daily lives, but one that is both entertaining and informative. This is one such novel.

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

reply

[–] clark_gillies 19 years ago

I have just finished reading Wolves eats Dogs... and my wife is of Ukrainian birth... so I know a bit about Chernobyl (thank God my wife was never effected) but what Smith wrote about is closer to the truth than you think!!!

Have to say, after being somewhat dissapointed with Red Square, and never enjoyed Havana Bay, Wolves Eat Dogs is my 2nd favorite Renko story (but not much better than Polar Star).

Gorky Park
Wolves Eat Dogs
Polar Star
Red Square
Havana Bay

The Robert Ludlum Jason Bourne series is my favourite (followed by Arkardy), and with a new Bourne book (and movie) out next year, can hope for another Renko story story also.... after reading Wolves Eats Dog, it feels like he has went full circle and found peace at last, with no need for a new book... but saying that, I also felt the same at Red Square ;-)

reply

[–] SlowRain 19 years ago

That's quite the range in reading tastes: Martin Cruz Smith is slow and methodical while Robert Ludlum was as high-octane as it comes.

My ranking for the Renko novels would be:

Gorky Park
Havana Bay
Wolves Eat Dogs
Red Square
Polar Star

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

reply

[–] clark_gillies 19 years ago

Yeah, I will read anything.

Though all the Renko stories are great, the one thing I hate in all of them is the lack of refrences to the his past... in one way it is good, but in another I like to know more about what Renko got up to between stories.

reply

[–] paulk_x 19 years ago

"Tokyo Park" is a great one, the main character is Harry Niles, a son of American missionaries living in Tokyo in the years before WW2.
Harry is a deceptive businessman hunted by Lieutenant Ishigami who he humiliated in the Japan-China war.
Having his deception influence the attack on Pearl Harbor (he leads the Japanese to believe there is a large oil dump ther) is a tad far fetched, but this has all the elements of great Smith novels. Perhaps slightly more melancholic than the Renko series.
There is a huge amount of research into this, not just the climate of the times but even a look into the Japanese psychology - honour etc.
I highly reccomend it, and it has a great ending.

reply

[–] SlowRain 19 years ago

Thanks for that. I think you meant Tokyo Station (international title) which is also called December 6 (US title). I have it, along with Rose sitting on my bookshelf waiting for me.

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

reply

[–] SlowRain 19 years ago

Now that I've read Rose, I'd rank his novels that I have read as:

Gorky Park
Rose
Havana Bay
Wolves Eat Dogs
Red Square
Polar Star

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

reply

[–] Hukkk 18 years ago

I've read and enjoyed all of the Renko books.

I also enjoyed Rose very much.

I didn't like December 6 the first time I read it, but for some reason, I picked it up again and enjoyed it, but not as much as Rose or the Renko books.

I didn't care for Stallion Gate at all. I just didn't like the main character, and didn't give a darn whether he lived or not at the end.

I thought Nightwing was pretty good.

I thought Gypsy in Amber was very good.

I don't have much to offer in the way of critiques, but I feel it's safe to say if you liked Gorky Park, you'd most likely also like much of Smith's other work.

reply

[–] Hukkk 18 years ago

Fans of Arkady Renko might also enjoy Stuart Kaminsky's "Inspector Rostnikov" books. (Good luck finding them!)

reply

[–] Newton820 18 years ago

Thing about me now with Cruz Smith's books is I can't give the newcomer an realistic appraisal of them. It's a little of the same with any Ian Rankin book (Inspector Rebus) book. They have become an indulgence that give me too much pleasure to give them enough of an unbias opinion.

I guess it comes down to his(their) style of writing. Once you begin to appreciate it, even the poorer offerings still give you enough of a 'fix'. Lol.

"I'm Brian and so's my wife!"

reply

[–] SlowRain 18 years ago

Now that I've read December 6, I'd rank his novels like this:

Gorky Park
Rose
Havana Bay
Wolves Eat Dogs
December 6
Red Square
Polar Star

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

reply

[–] glenn-232 17 years ago

There are two writers I can read, Martin Cruz Smith and Morris West, whether I'm the least bit interested in the story or not, simply because the writing is so darn good.

I've read and loved all MC Smith's novels I can lay my hands including all the Renko novels, one of my favorite ficional characters of all time. I really especially liked December 6 and even though the story for Rose didn't seem that inviting at first, the writing is so darn good it just sucks you in.

It's tough to choose a favorite Reno novel, but for some reason I have a special affection for Red Square, although Gorky Park has always been a favorite and Polar Star was amazing for being a such great story in such a confined space and Wolves Eat Dogs was such a unique story and setting you've got to hand it to the author, he could probably write about the phone book and make it interesting.

It's been quite awhile since I read Stallion Gate, but again, I thought the writing was amazing and loved the book.

Wish they're make more movies from his novels. The reason I started reading him was because I really like the movie Gorky Park and that's what got me started. To my mind, Dec 6 would be the best candidate for a movie, as long as they were relatively faithful to the book and could create the right atmosphere.

reply

[–] Focke_Wulf 17 years ago

Have not read many Martin Cruz Smith books, but did enjoy GORKY PARK and POLAR STAR. I thought the film version of GORKY was serviceable, not the least because one of my favorite character actors, Ian Bannen, was in it alongside Marvin and Hurt. I'm pleased to see from this thread that Smith has crafted a slew of Arkady Renko novels and will have to play catch-up. I just saw a listing in the weekend paper for yet one more, that, I'm guessing from title context, is another Renko book called "STALIN'S GHOST". . . not much of a stretch there, is it? Those of you fans can give me the high sign if I'm on the right track.

I'll also put this plea out on another thread, but you fans may have a clue. Some years back, my wife and I saw a trailer, in the theaters no less, for a film of POLAR STAR, with Hurt reprising his role as Arkady Renko, Charlotte Rampling as the wildlife biologist and Brian Dennehy as the corrupt and expedient American businessman. (I'm stretching a bit here. . . it's been years since I saw the trailer, let alone read the book, but I think I have those roles correct.) Never saw it in the theater, and IMDb has no listing for it. Anyone know what became of the project? They had enough footage in the can to present a trailer and set the scene credibly, so I'm not sure what happened. Any clues you can come up with would be appreciated. . .

"I'm not from here, I just live here. . ."

-James Mc Murtry

reply

[–] wiking5 17 years ago

Howdy all,

Read STALIN'S GHOST about a month ago. I thought it was excellent, but I'm a fan of all Smith's work. I just watched the movie GORKY PARK again recently and I'm surprised none of the other books were made into movies. I love the Renko character and it's been interesting to read his progression through the novels. I keep coming back to POLAR STAR, so I'd really like to see that one made into a movie.

"We all got it coming kid."

reply

[–] Focke_Wulf 17 years ago

Well, wiking5, I've just started RED SQUARE, and I love the atmospherics already. If they were to make more of these books into films, Hurt, who was credible as Renko, is probably too long in the tooth to pull him off anymore. But they would be good projects. I've gathered the historical time frame of RED SQUARE is in that vaguely post-Soviet, pre-coup time of disruption in the early 90s. I have to assume the other books follow a chronology of the changing Russia. As insights into the Soviet Union the series were already marvelous time capsules, as only the best of fiction can be. I'll be interested in catching up with the rest of the books. I also greatly enjoyed POLAR STAR. I take it you are unfamiliar with any film project based on that one. I swear to God, it was a trailer, in a movie theater! With Hurt and Charlotte Rampling and the whole nine yards! Somebody has to have some inside gossip on that one. . .

"I'm not from here, I just live here. . ."

-James Mc Murtry

reply

[–] wiking5 17 years ago

Howdy Focke Wulf,

I reread RED SQUARE and WOLVES EAT DOGS recently. All the novels are excellent and outside of Renko's personal situation is the macrocosm of the Russian situation. HAVANA BAY takes place in Cuba and WOLVES EAT DOGS is mostly set in the area around Chernobyl. The research into WWII battlefields described in STALIN'S GHOST dovetails with stuff written in William Gibson's PATTERN RECOGNITION. I haven't heard anything about a POLAR STAR movie, but I'd love to see one.

"We all got it coming kid."

reply

[–] Focke_Wulf 17 years ago

Hey, that's pretty spooky. I just read Gibson's PATTERN RECOGNITION a few weeks ago. It does kind of traverse the same territory, doesn't it? I rather like Cayce Pollard's grasp of how non-fashion becomes fashion. Her whole thing on Flecktarn camouflage was a trip in and of itself, speaking as something of a camouflage fetishist myself. Have you read any other Gibson novels? Worth my time? Does Cayce return in any of them?

Finished RED SQUARE. Just now starting DECEMBER 6 after a brief break for some Le Carre. . .

Thanks.

"I'm not from here, I just live here. . ."

-James Mc Murtry

reply

[–] wiking5 17 years ago

Howdy Focke Wulf,

I've read everything I could find written by William Gibson. He's brilliant. His NEUROMANCER started an entire new genre in science fiction. He also wrote an X-Files episode, I believe it was KILL SWITCH. I don't believe the Cayce Pollard character is in any of his other stuff. William Gibson will ALWAYS be worth your time.

DECEMBER 6 was a good one too. I like most all of Cruz-Smith's stuff.

See ya out there,

"We all got it coming kid."

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] clark_gillies 17 years ago

Red Square is good, and is set at a really interesting point in history as the Soviet Union is crumbling in on itself!

Probably the 4th best book (IMHO) after Gorky Park, Polar Star and Wolves Eats Dogs... maybe about the same level as Stalins Ghost (which is really good)... but its ALOT better than Havana Bay!

reply

[–] Nikon11 12 years ago

Hmmm, I just started Wolves, and so far I'd rank the books:

Gorky Park
Polar Star
Havana Bay
Red Square

reply

[–] remembervhs 15 years ago

I've read all the Renko novels and Rose. Gorky Park is the only Renko one that really stands out. The rest of them are variations on a theme and they felt a little rushed to me. It took Smith a long, long time to write Gorky Park and much, much less to write any of the others in the series, and that shows.

While all of his writing is good and original, I think Gorky Park is the only exceptional book that he's written.

reply

[–] nutsberryfarm 12 years ago

good to know! thx.

Season's Greetings

reply

[–] Nikon11 12 years ago

I don't agree with the other guy. I think that Polar Star and Red Square are good reads also. Actually, Gorky Park has a few draggy parts that the other two don't.

reply

[–] littlezero 12 years ago

Regrettably, I work two jobs and don't have as much time to read as I like -- so I've become incredibly selective. I loved Gorky Park. Can one of you who has read some of the other Arkady Renko novels tell me, does Irina Asanova appear in any of the others? If so, I would be keen to read them as well.

Thanks!

reply

[–] Nikon11 12 years ago

She's in Red Square.

I haven't read any more, but will be soon.

reply

[–] clark_gillies 12 years ago

She is only in Red Square, which she plays a big part of the story.

In the next book, Havana Bay, she is gone........

reply

[–] Nikon11 12 years ago

Just finished Havana Bay, and started Wolves Eat Dogs.

I have to say that I love the Renko character. I get tired of reading series where the main character is so good-looking, super smart, great personality, and foils the villain, gets the girl, and has tons of money.

Renko is smart and generally gets the best of the villain(s), but has nothing else from the above list.

reply