gorgs
did the gorgs live on earth
shareI always wondered that. It seems to me that the Gorgs and Doc/Sprocket would be next door neighbors.
shareWe have no way of knowing how "large" Fraggle Rock proper is. For all we know, the Gorgs (and by the way, gorgs is capitalized (unless you're in third grade)) <-- Don't do PEMDAS on that one (if you know what I mean, hombrey)? I think we can assume or not assume that Gorgs live underneath the earth in some land of the lost. Maybe they're sleigh slacks? Another possible X-planation is that the Fraggles live in a world between reality and fantasy. Therefore, on one side live the Gorgs, and on the other, a fantastical world where dogs have thumbs. This show is obviously an elaborate allegory depicting the oppression of the Jewish people at the hands of the imaginary puppet oligarchy. -Love, Day-V
sharePersonally, I always thought the fraggles were more like hippies living in a utopian society. They refuse to be ruled and they steal their food from both the Gorgs and Doozers. They only work half an hour per week and their jobs can be whatever they want (I think Reds job is actually to make up new ways of going down a waterslide). Otherwise, they hang out singing and generally being free spirits. I don't really see any oppression on Fraggle Rock, of Jews or anyone else.
The Doozer constructions do bear some resemblance to runaway industrial production in that they would both choke themselves without mindless consumption of the produced goods, but even still there seems to be a pleasant balance (on the show if not in real life).
ummmmwhat does that have to do with the question i asked
shareNothing. I was responding to zzdowns.
sharewell its my post not hers move along
shareAre you a moderator here or something? Conversations should flow naturally, not be stifled. On a small board such as this, I don't think it's a bad thing to talk about issues not necessarily related directly to the main issue.
You started the thread, you don't own it.
I think the best way to look at the Gorgs dwelling is just that it is a different world. Henson described in his notes that the Fraggle Hole was like Lucy going through the wardrobe in the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. It just takes you to another world that is not your own. Doc/Sprocket lived in what is more like our world, but the Gorgs live in a completely different world.
shareI don't think one can really quantify where the Gorgs live. I think they live in some sort of magical dimension which is linked to the real worl by fraggle rock. I remember that the two worlds did interact occasionally. I remember once when a crown was thrown away into the air by the Gorgs Doc later found it. I used to think that they lived underground, but the episode with the crown ended that theory, plus the fact that Gorgs clearly have a sky and sun. I think that the magical dimension theory works pretty well. Yes?
shareI would say that the Gorgs most definitlyy lived on Earth. First off, they clearly had a sun, a blue sky and a single moon so they did not live underground. Secondly, they grew raddishes and spoke english and thus grew a vegitable and spoke a launage each of which are indiginous to Earth. Ok, I supose all of these things could exist in an alternate demention, but what is the point of even having an alternate demention if it isn't going to have anything more exotic than a blue sky and single moon, and if they aren't going to grow anything more fantastical than raddishes (I mean raddishes are pretty dull even by earth vegitable standards). Then of couse there is the crown connection, that is the episode where Junior Gorge threw away the crown and it landed in Doc's yard. This would indicate that Doc and the Gorgs lived in the same demention and on the same planet (Junior is strong, but probably not that strong).
So then if the Gorgs lived on Earth then why do humans seem to be unaware of them? Well one explaination could lie in the fact that as a species Gorgs seemed rather endangered. One of the big running jokes on Papa Gorg was that he was a king but had no royal subjects. Prehaps at one time a large kingdom of Gorgs had existed on earth but for some reason (disease? fammine?) their numbers had become diminished and had ultimatly dwindled down to just three (Papa, Mama and Junior Gorg respectivly). However, I'm sure that the Gorgs would have sometimes gotten tired of eating raddishes and would have ventured out into the woods to find other sources of food. On some occasions they would be seen and even photographed by humans (though the photos would always be fuzzy and vauge) and since there is no would for Gorg in the english lauange they would instead be called Sasquatch or Big-Foot.
On the other hand, it was never stated that humans were not aware of the Gorgs. It is quite possible that humans and Gorgs were quite aware of one another and that they interacted all the time. I mean this is the Jim Henson Universe we're talking about and in a world where frogs sing of rainbows, bears tell jokes, dogs can play the piano and pigs can dance while serving pizza would Gorgs really seem that out of place? (not to mention that none of the humans in "outerspace" seemed particularly awed by Traveling Matt, which makes me wonder why he went to such trouble to avoid being seen by Doc. But thats a discussion for another time). In fact considering that the Fraggles could reach either Doc's place or the Gorg's garden from Fraggle Rock in a relativly short amount of time I would have to conclude that Doc and the Gorgs could not have lived very far apart. All things considered is would seem that Doc and the Gorgs were practically neighbors. In fact, Papa Gorg was only ever called Papa which would make since considering that his wife and son were the only ones we ever saw address him. Surely, however, Papa Gorg must have had a fist name by which his friends addressed him and it is quite possible that that first name was in fact Schemelfinney. I know we always assumed that Schemelfinney was the last name of Doc's elusive friend and neighbor (and that said friend and neighbor was human for that matter) but they never explicity said that this was the case. Thus it is quite possible that full name of Doc's mysterious friend was Schemelfinney "Papa" Gorg.
It all kinda makes ya' think don't it?
You've got some pretty interesting ideas Norman Bigfish, but frankly, there are way too many holes in your theory. I can't believe I'm even taking the time to argue the point. First off, there's an enormous amount of evidence that leaves little doubt that Ned Shimmelfinney was in fact human, or at least not a twenty+ foot giant. And if Doc was aware of the existence of Gorgs, you'd think he wouldn't be too much in awe of little furry creatures living behind the wall. I'm not even sure Doc lived in the same universe as Kermit the Frog and friends, despite them all appearing together in the Muppet Family Christmas.
As for why the Silly Creatures didn't seem to take much notice of Travelling Matt, it's because people usually only see what they want to see, so when they saw Matt, if they couldn't ignore him entirely, they instead saw a funny little man or a dog or something. For much the same reason, Gobo found he was invisible to Doc in the penultimate episode, even when he was staring him right in the face. His brain wouldn't let him see what he couldn't explain logically.
I used to to be confused about this whole thing with the Gorgs as a kid, but it seems obvious now that they existed in another world or dimension. I also think Fraggle Rock wasn't just underground, but either part of the Gorg's dimension, or someplace in between our world and the Gorgs, connecting the two, and maybe many others.
yah, most of my rantings were intened as a joke and were suposed to be humorous. I'm sorry if they weren't ;). I don't actually believe that Shimmelfinney and Papa Gorg were one in the same, or that Gorgs are responsible for the legend of Bigfoot (BTW I didn't realize that Shimmelfinney's first name was Ned). And I think you are quite correct in saying that Doc does not live int the same universe as Kermit and friends (despite them all being together in MFC and Sprocket's cameo in "A Muppet Christmas Carrol"). I think the real deal with the Gorgs is this: On one side of the Rock we have the real world and on the other side we have a fantasy world full of Gorgs and a Trash Heap. Thus Fraggle rock exists in a place between reality and fantasy.
share"Thus Fraggle rock exists in a place between reality and fantasy. "
That's a better way of putting it than I did. I apologize if I sounded as though I was taking your comments way too seriously. I probably came off sounding like a big nerd. In my defense, it was late and I was tired and not thinking too clearly. At the time, it sounded like you'd put a lot of serious thought into it, so I wasn't entirely sure you believed what you were saying or not. If I'd read your post when I'd been in a better frame of mind, I hope I would have realized you were mainly just being funny.
That's perfectly understandable as much of the humor was based on the apperance of serious thought. I mean a serious analysis of a show like Fraggle Rock, how ridiculous is that. It was also intended to illustate a point: all to often I find people taking wonderfull fantasy shows, which are intended for nothing more than to entertain and educate children (of all ages), and attempt to disect them down to reality and logic. But every time they do this is exactly the type of ridiculous crap that come up with. I really don't think Jim Henson put much thought into where exactly the Gorgs live and I don't think we're really intended to worry about it. We should all just learn to sit down and enjoy the show for its colorfull characters and catchy tunes.
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