Lady In The Red Shoes - Tenebre (1984) Discussion

[–] SometimesSober 21 years ago

Im just goin from rough memory here i but I think that was an imagining of a scene from the author's book Tenebre.

Carpe Jugulum! (Sieze the Neck!)

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[–] celia_cyanide 20 years ago

"Im just goin from rough memory here i but I think that was an imagining of a scene from the author's book Tenebre"

No, it was a flashback from his life. At the end, Dario Nicolatti is told that when the author was younger, a girl he knew was killed, and he was a suspect. They never found out who did it, and we are left wondering if her murder scarred him, or if he had been a killer from the beginning.

On the audio commentary, Argento says that what she was doing to the men for "for work," meaning she was a prostitute.

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[–] Gibski 20 years ago

yeah or maybe a combination of what's in the author's book tenebre...and it also felt like a dream sequence didn't it....thus not exactly what happened...but the kinda things he dreams about or thinks about regarding that girl who he killed...he might have been obsessed with her at the time and had all sorts of warped fantasies regarding her....the thing about the shoes and the high heel in the guys mouth...themes of domination there....or maybe rejection....or how he felt...when she rejected him? and it made him wanna kill her...so that's the kinda material which is in his books...all the murders of women..and i read someone saying why does argento hate women so much??? i think that in the movie it was meant to be a reflection of the writers feelings towards women...cos the original killer as well is someone who read his books and was thus influenced by him...and wanted to get rid of all the perverted deviants or something like that

oh and with all the guys circling her...themes of jealousy there..and i guess maybe she slept around with a bunch of guys...and he wanted her..maybe she slept with him as well as other men...or was unfaithful to him...or was just a bit of a whore/bitch lol who knows

but yeah it was a stylish touch...reminded me of david lynch movies...and i was wondering and confused about it as well but interested in just what that was meant to express...and understood it at the end...it was giving us a hint...and my first thought was that argento was giving us a snapshot of what's going on in the killer's mind....which is what it was

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[–] ldziub 19 years ago

Actually, her murder took place in the past during his teenage years in Rhode Island. I saw the re-establishment of Neal as a killer because he was a total sociopath. The first killer was a psychotic who believe he was "right" and all the women were immoral and therefore "wrong." Neal knew right from wrong. He immediately recognized who the killer really was and wanting to take out his agent and fiancee, perpetrated the idea that the killer was still alive by committing other murders and misleading the police.

I thought the heel in the mouth may have been symbolic of his rape and abuse at the hands of the other boys and "woman" at the beginning. I put "woman" in quotes since I think it's possible that she was not a chick at all.

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[–] Kurohambe 18 years ago

You guys do know that that 'girl' was actually a man.......right????

Argento talks about it on the audio commentary.........I'm not sure what the correct term nowadays is but the old term was a 'trans-sexual' I guess.

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[–] ldziub 18 years ago

As I said, I hadn't listened to the commentary but you shouldn't have to to ascertain such a major plot point.

A real weakness of the film. I thought it might have been a guy based on the penetration of the shoe's heel in his mouth but when Argento is given a chance when appropriate at the end of the film to clear this up, the detective says that a "girl" was killed in his past but and that suspicion was cast in Peter's direction but that nothing ever came of it. Well, wouldn't a bigger story back then have been the murder of a transgender/transsexual than just a girl, as the story describes her? How would that detail have been ommitted?

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] salvador_2003 18 years ago

Eva Robins wasn't it?

"I dont know just where Im going
But Im gonna try for the kingdom, if I can"

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] salvador_2003 18 years ago

It represents something that has been mentioned or is about to be mentioned, why?

"I dont know just where Im going
But Im gonna try for the kingdom, if I can"

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[–] SilentScreamz 17 years ago

I know, it made me upset when I realized that...

*note to self: make one*

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[–] sidpaxton 18 years ago

The character of the "woman in the red shoes" was in fact supposed to be a "woman" the author had murdered in his past. There is no plot point that the woman used to be a man...the actress that played the role of the woamn in the red shoes actually used to be a man and is in fact a transexual, but this is irrelevant to the story line. Argento did not overlook or under develop a plot point.

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[–] mic-hell 18 years ago

Actually this is pretty funny. In the same film, we have the first italian trans-sexual (later operated) to became famous (or infamous?). I still remember the HUGE scandal 15-20 years ago (ah, here in italy we have so much bigotry!) generated by a photo of Eva naked on a beach (with both p*n*s and b**bs) published on a couple of mainstream magazines...
And there is Veronica Lario, the infamous (famous?) wife of "the premier" Silvio Berlusconi! It's right of today another mini-show made by the two... Read here and have a laugh!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/01/31/berlusconi.apology.reut/index.html

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[–] unk-6 18 years ago

So that chick on the beach (with t*ts) was really a man???? For real??

"The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench"
Hunter S. Thompson

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] unk-6 18 years ago

So were we, the viewer, meant to know this??

"The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench"
Hunter S. Thompson

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[–] sidpaxton 18 years ago

No, I do not the believe the viewer was supposed to know. It was not a plot point.

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[–] unk-6 18 years ago

But the writer guy was meant know??

"The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench"
Hunter S. Thompson

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] jakewashere 17 years ago

No, we weren't meant to know. But we are meant to kind of feel that there's something "off" about this woman, something kind of weird -- that was the impression Dario Argento was trying to get across, which is why he cast Eva Robins in the role. She doesn't look exactly the way a woman should look, and Argento was experimenting to see if the audience would pick up on that.

The really weird part about Neal killing the woman is that he steals her shoes and sends them to Jane years later as a present. For a while this puzzled the hell out of me -- why would he do that? -- but I think I kind of get it now. Neal is going to kill Jane because she's been banging his agent behind his back, but by giving Jane the shoes, when he kills her he's symbolically killing -- all over again -- the first woman who turned him down. He brought the shoes into it so he can get some kind of righteous thrill out of it, you know the "And this is for making me feel like less of a man, you bitch" sort of thing.

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[–] mwschoon 18 years ago

Sid Paxton Sucks and he has no idea what this movie is about. Seriously man, get a life. It's obvious the woman in the red shoes was the murderer you stupid shmuck and Argento totally overlooked and under developed the plot point, did you even watch the movie.

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[–] argentobuff 18 years ago

Its what drove the author to madness.Rejection, and Humiliation.

Remember at the end when the Detective is explaining to Daria Nicoledi that

Neal was a teen,he was suspected of killing a girl.

That is the memory that plays in his head.

Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead.

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[–] joeshoe89 18 years ago

Just check out the size of those red high heels and it's a guy. Also look at the hands and feet. I think you can find anothe trans in Sleepless too.

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[–] marylandezmar 17 years ago

I didn't like this movie that much but I absolutely LOVED that scene.
I took it completely symbollically.
I took the woman to be a symbol of female sexual desire. The way that this group of men crowd around her and she seems to be completely into having five or so guys. I think in this part Neal becomes... jealous, threatened, impotent or unable to satisfy this womans desire. Which is shown when he hits her.
I think when Neal is pinned down it shows how he has lost control, and when Eva sticks her heel in his mouth I think it is a phallic symbol to symbolise his emasculation, and humiliation.
I think when the lesbian reporter points out that he is sexist and portrays his women "as victims" she hit the nail on the head. He needs to portray women this way to feel he has regained something he percieves he has lost.

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[–] STEVE-1559 17 years ago

People seem to forget that the woman gives Peter the thumbs-down sign before he hits her. She is saying that she will have sex with all the other guys but not him, presumably because he is not attractive enough or masculine enough. That's why he hits her.

Even Maitland McDonagh, in her book about Argento, gets this wrong. She has Peter hitting the woman because he is offended by her displaying of wanton sexuality, when in fact he hits her because he has been rejected from joining in.

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[–] movieman-232 17 years ago

She was a he? *beep* When I was watching this later on after the scene with the red pumps, I remembered someone said on a message board that that transexual prostitute was hot, I had no idea that Eva was the one they referred to because to me she looked like a woman. Small Breasts, but some women have small breats.

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[–] 17 years ago

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