MovieChat Forums > The Dark Crystal (1982) Discussion > LOTR plot similarities

LOTR plot similarities

posted 14 years ago by Hobbitte
6 replies | jump to latest

Hi,
I just watched Dark Crystal for the first time (age 24). The atmosphere, built mainly through the settings and grotesque character design worked well and lent it originality. However, I couldn't get over plot similarities with LOTR to truly enjoy it. For instance:

1) character of the Chamberlain: Gollum at 99%; his mannerisms ("Please, please"), style of treachery (pretending to be their friend), separating Jen & Kira in an underground tunnel like Frodo & Sam in Shelob's lair etc.
2) the shard is a ring-type McGuffin, but less developed (doesn't affect the bearer)
3) the Gelfings look and sound a lot like Halflings (hobbits), same hoppitty underdog idea
4) the Skeksis have a dark tower with orkish minions, and there's a crystal/ring finale hanging over a fiery precipice

The movie also has lots of original plot points (such as the link btwn Skeksis & Mystics), but I was wondering, are those of you who saw it after LOTR-mania still fans?
I might have liked it more at age 6 too, but now, well, maybe I'm just getting old and over-analyzing everything (childhood awe is long gone.)

[–] cobnut 14 years ago

It's funny, I watched it for the first time today and I am also 24.

I agree about all of the similarities, but I don't think that anyone ought to be shocked or surprised by them. LOTR had a unique and truly phenomenal effect on the world when it was released, it changed the way people percieved fiction and high fantasy. That effect in turn was passed on by osmosis from the literary world to the public consciousness over the years.

Tolkien's work inspired artists of every kind (filmmakers, writers, illustrators, etc.,) and continues to do so to this day. Parallels can be drawn with almost every successful fantasy franchise that exists.

Let us also not forget, that Tolkien himself drew inspiration and ideas from pre-existing mythology, particularly Norse. He also imbued Christian themes into his work, as did C.S. Lewis. No writer is completely innocent of plagiarism, either intentional or unintentional. As humans that is impossible for us.

In the case of this film, I don't view it as plagiarism, more as inspiration. Especially when you consider that Brian Froud was behind Dark Crystal, and nobody with eyes could accuse him of lacking his own creative talent.

The mirror... it's broken.
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[–] prakashsant7 14 years ago

Good points, IIRC Tolkien's own major influences (in addition to Norse mythology) were the old Anglo-Saxon sagas (my prof told me the languages in LOTR were like Old English) and, of course, Wagnerian opera. An interesting point you bring up, but I think the key to drawing the line between inspiration and plagiarizing (and identifying originality( is in what the authors do with their inspirations. There are a very, very few works (like Wagner's himself, Coleridge, Neruda, Brahms) who are so original-- stemming from such immense imagination-- that they stand out as groundbreaking. Many other works can be regarded with great originality as well, however. The key is that they don't simply recycle and rehash the old stories-- they seem to work hard to create their own worlds, imagine them and make them consistent, in a way that no one's ever thought of before.

Special props when the authors in these cases draw in otherwise obscure fields and information (specialized psychology, science, architecture background for example) and make exciting stories out of them. This seems to be a major source of the most imaginative, groundbreaking works. LOTR certainly bore many of those features, and the original (Wagner of course), while certainly being inspired by the old Norse myths, incorporated elements of psychology that are clever and advanced even for 21st-century practitioners of the field.

[–] RiverWraith 14 years ago

"my prof told me the languages in LOTR were like Old English"

Except for Tolkein's Elvish, which is in fact based on Finnish.

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[–] blackwood_sugar 14 years ago

Yes and no.

Sindarin, the primary form of Elvish in The Lord of the Rings, was inspired by the Welsh language with influences from Old Norse and Old English.

Quenya (High-Elven) was inspired by Finnish, but in the Third Age -- the time period when The Lord of the Rings takes place -- Quenya was no longer a living language of the Elves of Middle-earth. It lingers mainly in names but sometimes has ceremonial uses.

So when people refer to the "elven tongue" in The Lord of the Rings, they almost always mean Sindarin -- the Welsh-inspired language.

A good illustration of this is Arwen's name. "Arwen" is Sindarin and looks and sounds Welsh; her Quenya name is Undómiel, which resembles Finnish.

there was this screw wot really had it in for me

[–] TalesfromTheCryptfan 14 years ago

Well Henson and Froud with Oz are huge fans of Tolkein's masterpiece and were influenced, it's still an original movie.

"Questions Questions too many questions, want shard here!"-The Dark Crystal

[–] 14 years ago

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