i know this movie is from early 80s and future vision is poor like rest of 80s movies. But okay the replicant testing machine it checks for puples or blushing,okay.. but why isnt there an easier way to test them like xray or somekind of scanner? because they are robots machines not generically engineered humans, right? English is not my first language
shareI think you just hit the nail on the head on a major plothole. On the other hand the motto was more human than human or whatever, so maybe they came to a point where blood tests and x rays don't cut it anymore.
shareby goodloox;
"because they are robots machines not generically engineered humans, right?"
It's the other way around.
The Nexus 6 replicants are not machines.
They are genetically engineered to be almost exactly like humans except; they are grown quickly, their memories are implanted and they live for only 4 years.
"like xray or somekind of scanner?"
Physically the replicants look the same as us.
Recall the business that makes eyes where it is very cold where Roy and Leon show up.
Those eyes are not mechanical. They are biological.
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - π
We've been inside the eye lab of Hannibal Chew so I think we should assume that replicants are assembled from genetically engineered body parts. At least, that's how it probably worked in the first movie but I wouldn't be surprised if they changed/updated it into integral rapid growth for the sequel.
Alex
by Alex;
"We've been inside the eye lab of Hannibal Chew so I think we should assume that replicants are assembled from genetically engineered body parts. At least, that's how it probably worked in the first movie"
There is evidence for rapid growth and body part implants in the first movie imo. I would guess that both are done to create a replicant.
- We know the body part evidence as you mentioned about Chew's eye lab. Chew also says that Tyrell designed the Nexus 6 brain.
The evidence for rapid growth of the basic body comes from Tyrell's chat with Roy about the inability to change the lifespan of a replicant.
Tyrell: The facts of life... to make an alteration in the evolvement of an organic life system is fatal. A coding sequence cannot be revised once it's been established.
Batty: Why not?
Tyrell: Because by the second day of incubation, any cells that have undergone reversion mutation give rise to revertant colonies, like rats leaving a sinking ship; then the ship... sinks.
Batty: What about EMS-3 recombination?
Tyrell: We've already tried it - ethyl, methane, sulfinate as an alkylating agent and potent mutagen; it created a virus so lethal the subject was dead before it even left the table.
Tyrell: Wouldn't obstruct replication; but it does give rise to an error in replication, so that the newly formed DNA strand carries with it a mutation - and you've got a virus again...
That I can agree with, BB.
shareThe Nexus 6 replicants are not machines.
They are genetically engineered to be almost exactly like humans except; they are grown quickly, their memories are implanted and they live for only 4 years.
Then why does Deckard tell Rachael: -Replicants are like any other machine. ?
Interesting that you should take his one literally, criztu. Also, he says that to Tyrell.
It's a trap ;) . Also, he says that to Rachael.
shareOh, right, Deckard does say that to Rachael after she said: "It seems you feel our work is not a benefit to the public." I forgot they talked a bit before Tyrell appeared.
so, how come Deckard - an expert in detecting replicants, says the Nexus 6 replicants are machines, if "the Nexus 6 replicants are not machines."?
shareby criztu;
"so, how come Deckard - an expert in detecting replicants, says the Nexus 6 replicants are machines, if "the Nexus 6 replicants are not machines."?"
Short answer;
Deckard does not have the most up to date knowledge about replicants as I'll explain below.
We are also getting to the level of semantics.
The human body can be described as a machine
http://www.anstendig.org/BodyAsMachine.html
But usually a machine is considered a mechanical device powered by electricity or a fossil fuel.
And that is what Deckard's statement is about imo.
- A machine robot (from our world) and a biological human are usually considered to be different kinds of entities.
And Deckard uses the word machine to say that these replicants are not human.
* My long answer about Deckard's comment;
1. Nexus 6 replicants are biological organisms; When there are visuals of the parts used for replicants (eyes) or a discussion of how they are created (by Tyrell), then the evidence is that the replicants are biological beings.
Tyrell calls them "an organic life system" based on DNA.
- Tyrrell says that his company is trying to replicate humans;
Tyrell: "More human than human" is our motto
Early in the 21st Century, THE TYRELL CORPORATION advanced Robot evolution into the Nexus phase - a being virtually identical to a human - known as a Replicant. The NEXUS 6 Replicants were superior in strength and agility, and at least equal in intelligence, to the genesis engineers who created them. Replicants were used Off-world as slave labor, in the hazardous exploration and colonization of other planets. After a bloody mutiny by a NEXUS 6 combat team in an Off-world colony, Replicants were declared illegal on earth - under penalty of death. Special police squads - BLADE RUNNER UNITS - had orders to shoot to kill, upon detection, any trespassing Replicant. This was not called execution. It was called retirement.
Bryant: They're designed to copy human beings in every way except their emotions. The designers reckoned that after a few years, they might develop their own emotional responses: hate, love, fear, anger, envy. So they built in a fail-safe device."
Deckard: "Which is what?"
Bryant: "Four year life span."
Batty: We're not computers, Sebastian, we're physical
Deckard does not have the most up to date knowledge about replicants
[...]
replicants are artificially born humans
[...]
Not robots [...] which would have a computer brain
by criztu;
"You say Deckard is not up to date,"
Based on Deckard saying he had been retired and Bryant having to explain in detail what the Nexus 6 replicants are to him.
'but what about the introduction text, which says that Tyrell Corporation advanced Robot evolution into the Nexus phase - a being virtually identical to a human - known as a Replicant.
How can the Replicants be Robots, if they're Humans? Could the writers of this movie, be grossly bent on misleading us?"
Imo the writers use semantics and word play as I've described to soften meaning; to hide meaning, to blur meaning.
Specifically the Tyrell Corporation at some time in the past made robots, that I imagine were like Data in Star Trek; with a metal structure and with mechanically created circuits. (I don't think that would contradict the Dick novel.)
But the movie implies imo that the robot company eventually became a human clone company at some point (with some assembly of biological parts & modifications) to create organic life which was virtually identical to a human except for a lack of emotion at birth and a 4 year life span.
- Essentially, the Nexus 6 replicants are not robots (as we would understand them) but modified human clones.
* Technology companies in our world can branch out their products. Google began with just search; now they are working on self driving cars and many other tech products.
- But in Blade Runner there is the added moral message about a shift in product development, when a tech company begins to intrude on creating human life as a product for sale.
As Rachel says;
Rachael: I'm not in the business. I am the business.
Imo the writers use semantics and word play as I've described to soften meaning; to hide meaning, to blur meaning.
More power to you criztu.
ξ
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - π
just remember: the movie has an apparent layer, to fool the profane, and a hidden layer, to speak to the initiate.
you yourself, are the victim of the doctrine represented in Blade Runner: you are most probably convinced that you are simply a machine made of meat, evolved over time, for no reason, and with no purpose.
to criztu;
Interesting that you wrote a comment on August 28 which was very similar to my view.
by criztu Β» Sun Aug 28 2016 04:51:11 Flag βΌ | Reply |
IMDb member since September 2004
Post Edited: Mon Aug 29 2016 16:30:15
Deckard thinks replicants are machines. Even the opening text says the replicants are robots.
By the end of the movie, Deckard realizes that replicants are humans, just like him. He even falls in love with one of them. What makes these humans into "replicants", is their state of enslavement to their "creator", as Roy Batty opens his eyes.
Deckard himself is enslaved, as you can see in the scene with Bryant, where he is forced to kill 4 more "skin jobs" - "No choice, pal".
thus, we have:
Replicants are humans, made slaves to Tyrell
Deckard is a human, made slave to Tyrell
observe that the replicants are called also machines, robots, skin jobs, toys, yet they are advertised as "more human than human".
Interesting that you wrote a comment on August 28 which was very similar to my view.
Actually, this view is close to my view. Planet Earth is dying. Mankind is therefore abandoning Earth to colonize space. We're witnessing the birth of Deckard and Rachael, a new breed of replicants made by the god Tyrell. They will be the new humans of a future Earth. The Theatrical Cut appropriately ends with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
Alex
Rachael, a new breed of replicants
...with a four years life span...
As stated in the Theatrical Cut, Deckard and Rachael (or Nexus 7) have no need for a fail-safe device. After all, they are human.
Alex
As stated in the Theatrical Cut, Deckard and Rachael (or Nexus 7) have no need for a fail-safe device. After all, they are human.
The voiceover states it: "Gaff had been there, and let her live. Four years, he figured. He was wrong. Tyrell had told me Rachael was special: no termination date. I didnβt know how long we had together... who does?"
Note that in Blade Runner 2 they are searching for Deckard. That means they presume he's still alive.
Personally, I understand why there would be no need for the Nexus 7 to have a built-in fail-safe device. The line between human and replicant is gone. The goal has been achieved.
Alex
to criztu and Alex; following up on your thoughts, I see lots of ways to interpret "Blade Runner". My journey down the religious path is below the following two quotes.
Going in the direction of a religious interpretation, this summary touches a lot of the bases from Milton for instance.
Tyrell has the appearance of a living god from within a pyramid above the clouds that exudes wealth and power.
This self-image is reinforced when Tyrell assumes the role of the gods by dimming the sun on command.
Given the replicants' superhuman abilities, they are created by Tyrell and fall from the heavens (off-world) makes them analogous to fallen angels.
Roy Batty shares many similarities in this context with Lucifer as he seeks an audience with Tyrell using J.F. Sebastian who shares the replicants' "accelerated decrepitude".
Like the classical image of angels Roy refers to Tyrell as "Father" in the Workprint and the Final Cut. Also like Lucifer when he cannot gain the power he seeks from his creator, he seeks instead to destroy him. This connection is also apparent when Roy deliberately misquotes William Blake, "Fiery the angels fell..." (Blake wrote "Fiery the angels rose..." in America, A Prophecy).
Zhora makes use of a serpent that "once corrupted man" in her performance.
Nearing the end of his life Roy creates a stigmata as he transitions into a Christ-like figure who provides salvation to Deckard.
Upon his death Roy's soul ascends into the heavens in the form of a dove; which appears to fulfill Tyrell's premature metaphor of the Prodigal Son.
The kiss of death is also seen in Blade Runner, when Roy Batty kisses his maker, Tyrell, moments before he is killed.
the case for Batty as Christ is also a strong one. After all, he did ascend into Heaven, he was seated at the right hand of his god, and he did return to Earth only to die and have his soul (in the form of a white dove?) ascend a second time. Also, he forgave Deckard his sins, and saved him from falling to his death (and damnation in Hell?) I have some problems with the theory of Batty-as-Savior, though. For one thing, Batty is a man of violence,
Here is my own twist
Based on Deckard saying he had been retired and Bryant having to explain in detail what the Nexus 6 replicants are to him.
Some say this was merely meant as exposition. Of course, we the fans know better. It simply means Deckard has quit his job for at least 4 years. He only dealt with earlier generations.
Alex
[deleted]
to Alex;
"Some say this was merely meant as exposition. Of course, we the fans know better. It simply means Deckard has quit his job for at least 4 years. He only dealt with earlier generations."
Yes. And this applies to other dialogue in the film.
For instance after he tests Rachel at Tyrell's headquarters.
Deckard: Suspect? How can it not know what it is?
Deckard: She's a replicant, isn't she?
Tyrell: I'm impressed. How many questions does it usually take to spot them?
Deckard: I don't get it, Tyrell.
Tyrell: How many questions?
Deckard: Twenty, thirty, cross-referenced.
Tyrell: It took more than a hundred for Rachael, didn't it?
Deckard: She doesn't know.
Tyrell: She's beginning to suspect, I think.
I think the simplest explanation here, is that Replicants are built to serve a function - and Deckard is demonstrating the view of society. Just because their processors are organic (rather than mechanic), it doesn't change the fact that they are still designed with a purpose in mind they are considered tools, and not considered a true form of life... which in itself is really what the film is about.
shareThey aren't machines.
They are full human beings with altered DNA. This alteration and some piecemeal body parts has allowed the Tyrell Corporation to call them robots. Robots have no rights because they have no free will.
Look, the film is a play on words. It is about propaganda. It is checking to see if you are using all your higher reasoning skills.
1) Do you see robotic parts at all in the movie that pertain to replicants (Never mind Sebastian's "Toys")?
2) The test that seeks out Replicants is psychological in nature. Indicating there is a rupture in their development (mainly no childhood) that marks them psychologically different from biologically born humans.
3) Now take into account words. The words at the beginning of the film. Contrast those words against what you see about Rachel, Roy, Pris, Deckard etc. The words Tyrell and others use to describe replicants. You will see you are being lied to repeatedly.
It is very disturbing, or it should be that you only took into account ROBOT mentioned at the beginning of the film but completely ignored GENETIC ENGINEER. That you, many others, including myself, ignored the evidence of the film based on a narrative WORD. THAT is the danger of Propaganda.
So we are complicit in the crimes of slavery shown in this film. We have no sympathy for most of the characters because we think they are malfunctioning electronics. After all, you don't cry for your android phone when it conks out, do you?
by kaskait;
"They aren't machines.
They are full human beings with altered DNA. This alteration and some piecemeal body parts has allowed the Tyrell Corporation to call them robots...
3) Now take into account words. The words at the beginning of the film. Contrast those words against what you see about Rachel, Roy, Pris, Deckard etc. The words Tyrell and others use to describe replicants. You will see you are being lied to repeatedly.
It is very disturbing, or it should be that you only took into account ROBOT mentioned at the beginning of the film but completely ignored GENETIC ENGINEER. That you, many others, including myself, ignored the evidence of the film based on a narrative WORD. THAT is the danger of Propaganda."
Very good.
Ridley Scott and the writers with their dystopia don't pound the viewer over the head about how evil the system is.
They show how corporations can con people into believing things with constant advertising and labels which are not accurate.
There are huge advertisements all over this future Los Angeles. Messages are being planted into people's minds.
And one message is that these artificially born humans, the replicants, are not human at all. They are robots, machines, skin jobs.
When we see the replicants for who they are; then the viewer can realize that the labels for the replicants are a lie.
- Tyrell is legally selling human slaves. But the corporation's propaganda has spread to such an extent that it has brain washed a society to accept it.
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - π
There is a symbolic aspect, the eyes are said to be the mirror of the soul, and the replicants don't have one.
shareBecause they ARE genetically engineered humans. That's the point of the whole film. Who are WE to say what is human or not? The replicants are basically organic life forms, created in a lab is all, and given someone else's memories, but are they human or not? Just because they weren't born from another human, etc. The machine tries to detect things that separate replicants from humans, because natural born humans have more experience in the real world and life, from birth. Replicants only have some memories. So of course there would be a machine that should be able to detect this. An x-ray machine wouldn't show anything, because on the inside, they are just like us. But again, that's the point of the film; what is life? What is human? We now have babies created in a test-tube, are they human? Of course.
-------------------------
"I'm verklempt, talk amongst yourselves..."
[deleted]
The difference between Replicants and humans is a philosophical one, really, not a physical one. That's kind of a strain running through the whole movie. Actually determining which is Replicant and which is a human relies on exploring "what it means to be human," not on efficiently sensing different hardware. What's inside that makes us human? That's the question. You're being too literal.
shareMy take is that they even though they are robots they are made of organic parts, and that's why they are so life-like. Life-like enough to pass for the real thing in every way, except for emotionally.
As for Deckard using the term "machine" to describe them to some of the characters in the movie, I think that's a just a general term. Like the way you might call the human body a machine. Even though they are made of organic materials that mimic human material the people of Blade Runners future probably still think of them as machines.