Have any threads discussed the whole "I want you" scene before? If not, I'd love to hear you guys' interpretations of it. In my opinion, Deckard was trying to get her to accept her own human emotion at a time when she was afraid and felt no reason to live.
shareSadly that scene swoops over the common viewers head and it's just blah blah rape me to most
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdTmT3wVBxM someone should remake hollywoodshare
I got that that was the intention. But I also felt I had to really reach that intention and ignore how it came across. They could have portrayed it better, have him maybe tell her that these feelings are her own, not implanted any more than his - human feelings are.
I get that this scene - like much of the film, was noir inspired, but the other elements of the final cut influenced by noir were not cheesy like this scene.
I LOVE Blade Runner. For me this was the only weak scene in absolute masterpiece of a movie.
Resolve is never stronger than in the morning after the night it was never weaker.
I'm not necessarily saying that the scene primarily came across as rapey, (although I can imagine why it would to some) but rather clumsy and cheesy and just unsure of itself.
Resolve is never stronger than in the morning after the night it was never weaker.
Two replicants making out for the very first time. Why wouldn't it be clumsy? It all depends how you look at it.
shareHaha I meant the scene itself was clumsy in conveying it's message. At least to me.
Also of the interpretation that either Deckard is a human or that we can't possibly know. I find these two interpretations of Hampton and Ford to be more in accordance with one of the central themes of what it means to be a human rather than Scott's assertion.
Resolve is never stronger than in the morning after the night it was never weaker.
But of course I'm glad we disagree because it's more interesting that way :)
Resolve is never stronger than in the morning after the night it was never weaker.
I meant the scene itself was clumsy in conveying it's message.
To be honest, I never got the impression that the 'kissing scene' wants to convey a message. Maybe Scott should have used the initial music composed for this scene instead of the sax tune. It would have made the ambiguity of this moment more clearly. Indeed, there is something clumsy in the way they are romancing. I never really saw it as a straightforward kissing scene. The tone is way too desperate, hopeless and sad for that. One of the more interesting factors that may come into play is that Rachael in a way wants to proof that she's human to the person who says she's a replicant. What leads Deckard to his behaviour? In what kind of world do we live when people fall in love with a "machine"?
Alex
Agreed. The sax DEFINITELY made it seem cheesy to me. I mean, a beautiful piece of music as is all of Vangelis' score, but for that part it seemed too stock standard of a love scene, and when coupled with the traditional film noir set up of the woman being all like 'chase me chase me' it just added to that.
I thought the first half of the scene was really good.
"I'm not in the business ... I am the business"
And her remarking that she's never played the piano, but just has memories of it. And questioning if Deckard ever took the vaught komf test - not so much questioning if he's a replicant, but if he has empathy. They just needed to add to it, to go from that to an assertive awakening of intimacy in the form of a love scene reminiscent of old noir films was just jarring. And I can also see why some would get rapey vibes. I feel like they did half the work and then just cut corners.
Deckard is somewhat distraught at what he's been made to do, he's killed an innocent being, Rachel helps unlock his empathy which has died down because of the world he is in and the role he plays in it, and she makes him feel human. And vice versa. They needed to convey that more for me. It had such potential and I felt that they only did half of a good job with it.
Still one of my favourite movies though. This is the only I flaw I find BR to have.
Resolve is never stronger than in the morning after the night it was never weaker.
I thought the first half of the scene was really good.
It's probably the best moment in the film.
This is the only I flaw I find BR to have.
Well, I like it because I see it as an act of two very lonely people who have nothing going for them and no one else to turn to. She lets herself be conquered by the one who dismisses her a non-human. He's making out with a substitute, a machine. What are their motives? Why is Deckard so rough? Why is it so desperate? The scene raises questions and that's why it's more interesting than the standard boring kissing scene.
Here's what director Chris Cunningham has to say about the whole apartment scene:
"The love scene in Deckard's apartment," he says, "is so beautiful and strange. If Deckard is supposed to be a replicant, then this is basically an uncomfortable dialogue between two non-humans, one of whom is about to have their first sexual encounter.
"The music cues support this idea incredibly," he continues. "This is my favourite Vangelis cue in the film. It's almost cartoony in the way its dissonance and abstract, mysterious quality harks back to early experimental electronic music. Rachel follows Deckard into the kitchen while he cleans up and tries to avoid a direct confrontation with her. I love the way the music, sound design and different lighting environments change as they move around the apartment."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/3613861/Film-makers-on-film-Chris-Cunningham.html
Alex
It's probably the best moment in the film.
Oooh big call. I do love the whole apartment scene LEADING (including facets that Chris Cunningham mentioned) up to the kissing, but my favourite parts would have to be Deckard killing Zorah, tears in rain, and the opening. Although in saying that it's pointless to try and pick favourite moments because the whole film just puts me under a complete spell.
Yeah I wouldn't want a standard kissing scene. But the themes of an organism with memories (possibly) of having sex but never actually having done it, and therefore not trusting her feelings and whether they were her own were already strong enough. I would have liked this to have been acknowledged with some spare but powerful dialogue like that which preceeded this moment earlier in the scene. The ambiguity you mentioned just kind of cheapened it for me and gave off of more of a cheesy pulpy vibe that was at odds with what came before it.
Resolve is never stronger than in the morning after the night it was never weaker.
I always saw the scene as being an odd and awkward attempt at romance by the characters.
From Rachael's point of view, we never learn what type of replicant she is or what function she serves other than introducing Deckard to Tyrell and taking the Voight-Kompf test, later following up with Deckard on her own. Is she a pleasure model like Pris? If not, she would totally be inexperienced at lovemaking.
Deckard on the other hand definitely has experience, and may even have experience with replicant pleasure models previously. He does express concern for her after she saves his life and tries to be more gentle with her when she plays the piano. But she is scared and tries to leave. Then he gets more forceful with her and they do the deed.
Maybe I'm naiive but I never saw it as rape. It could be that Deckard is so far gone that he doesn't really know how to express his love for her and acted as such. I'm not defending his actions, but that to me is what you on-screen: an inexperienced machine trying to be loved by a person that doesn't best know how to show it. At the end he is protecting her when they leave the apartment, so he definitely cares about her.