Why could Tyrell not increase Roy's life span? I know Tyrell listed off reasons why it could not work but at the beginning Bryant made it sound like the 4 year life span was built in on purpose. Maybe Bryant didn't know what he was talking about.
shareBryant: Nexus 6. Roy Batty. Incept date 2016. Combat model. Optimum self-sufficiency. Probably the leader. This is Zhora. She's trained for an off-world kick-murder squad. Talk about beauty and the beast, she's both. The fourth skin job is Pris. A basic pleasure model. The standard item for military clubs in the outer colonies. They were designed to copy human beings in every way except their emotions. The designers reckoned that after a few years they might develop their own emotional responses. You know, hate, love, fear, anger, envy. So they built in a fail-safe device.
Deckard: Which is what?
Bryant: Four year life span.
Impossible is illogical.
Lack of evidence is not proof.
ξ + ξ = ξ
Yeah those are the lines alright. So if the fail safe 4 year life span was built in, Why couldn't Tyrell remove the fail safe from the Replicants without causing fatal side effects?
shareBecause the damage is already done.
shareby WmTle;
"So if the fail safe 4 year life span was built in, Why couldn't Tyrell remove the fail safe from the Replicants without causing fatal side effects?"
That is explained in the film.
Tyrell: The facts of life... to make an alteration in the evolvement of an organic life system is fatal. A coding sequence cannot be revised once it's been established.
Batty: Why not?
Tyrell: Because by the second day of incubation, any cells that have undergone reversion mutation give rise to revertant colonies, like rats leaving a sinking ship; then the ship... sinks.
Batty: What about EMS-3 recombination?
Tyrell: We've already tried it - ethyl, methane, sulfinate as an alkylating agent and potent mutagen; it created a virus so lethal the subject was dead before it even left the table.
Tyrell: Wouldn't obstruct replication; but it does give rise to an error in replication, so that the newly formed DNA strand carries with it a mutation - and you've got a virus again...
Why could Tyrell not increase Roy's life span?
Tyrell is lying all the way - he's what's called an "unreliable narrator".
Tyrell is not the narrator, Deckard is. Also, it makes more sense that the fail-safe within replicants is irreversible. It's part of their genetic code and slowly infects the innards of the replicants. In the beginning of the movie we see that Roy feels his time is up. His body is giving up on him. It's not a self-destruct bomb on a spaceship that you can simply switch off. If it was, biological engineers working on the street could easily fix it for them. Whether it's a lie or not is not even important. The character has to die anyway.
alright, in the larger sense, Tyrell is a narrator, as he provides the elements of the story - eg. the replicants develop a "strange obsession" so Tyrell has to build in a 4 year life span. the 4 year life span is thus the reason why the replicants rebelled, killed 23 people and the crew of a shuttle, came to earth, tried to break into the Tyrell pyramid, killed Holden, interrogated Chew at EyeWorld, got to Sebastian, and from there into the Tyrell pyramid, again, to get more life.
Most of us don't bother to question the nature of that "strange obsession", that forces Tyrell to set a 4 year life span on the replicants.
Most of us don't bother to question how is Tyrell able to control the life span of the replicants, when he admits he has no control over the processes in the DNA.
Most of us don't bother to question how come Roy Batty dies on November 2019, when he was manufactured in January 2016, therefore he "stops functioning" 2 months before the expiry date - if Roy stops functioning 2 month before the expiry date, we can assume there could be replicants stop functioning 3 months before the expiry date, or even 6 months, or even 1 year before expiry date, who knows? Imagine Leon - a combat ammunition loader, mental level C, below a prostitute, stop functioning in the middle of whatever war is going on off the shoulder of Orion. What, does the corporation retire them 1 year before their expiry, to make sure they don't stop in the middle of the war?
So you see, if we take as true the information provided by Tyrell or Deckard - who tells us that "replicants are just like any other machine", the story becomes absurd - eg. Deckard falls in love with a machine, which is more human than human!
You either live with an absurdity - "a machine more human than a human", or you understand that Deckard is clueless for the most part of the movie, Tyrell and Bryant are liars, and so we're dealing with an unreliable narration - aka what the various characters say is not necessarily true all the time.
One of the characters that tells a lie is not what's called an unreliable narrator. The unreliable narrator is a movie told from a point of view of a child (Spielberg's Empire Of The Sun) or a character with mental problems (Fincher's Fight Club).
shareTo narrate is to tell a story.
In a strict sense, the narrator is the one who reads the story - aka Deckard will effectively narrate each scene.
In a larger sense, the narrator is each character who says stuff that builds the story - aka Rachael asking Deckard "have you ever retired a human by mistake" or "have you ever tested yourself", is telling us that Deckard is prisoner of a false ideology.
But if you're not happy with Tyrell being an unreliable narrator, I respect that, so let me rephrase my words: Tyrell is lying about the lifespan of the replicants, he even admits he can't control the processes in the DNA, and in other words he admits that the replicants are human - "more human than human is our motto".
So, if Tyrell lied about the four-year lifespan, then Roy died of...what? Pneumonia? Sudden stroke? Broken heart?
The fact that he died two months before his fourth inceptday is irrelevant. Expiration dates are approximate. Any number of factors can cause a product to go bad before its expiration date, or cause it to last for a while past it. Like what Tyrell said about burning lights and whatnot. And, no. Just because he lied once for testing purposes and was very full of himself doesn't mean that every one of his lines was a lie.
Thit and thpin!
So, if Tyrell lied about the four-year lifespan, then Roy died of...what? Pneumonia? Sudden stroke? Broken heart?
Expiration dates are approximate.
Just because he lied once for testing purposes and was very full of himself doesn't mean that every one of his lines was a lie.
So you are of the opinion that Batty is alive and well, having faked his own death after returning to his creator to demand more life even though Batty was aware that it was unnecessary since he has an unlimited lifespan?
Expiration dates being approximate is a fact of life. Otherwise, why would my gallon of milk start tasting funky five days before its expiration? Or still taste fine two days after? Why did my car's engine not explode a month and 300 miles after the sticker on my windshield said I should've gotten an oil change? Why is your vicodin still getting you high six months after the prescription bottle said to discard it?
Was Roy not showing signs of impending breakdown when he first appeared in the phone booth? Would their off-world handlers not be watching for these signs so that they could properly prepare for their replicants expiration and replacement?
Why could Leon have not infiltrated Tyrell Corp. before the rest of the group attempted the break-in? Maybe Roy's plan was to get Leon to be the inside man for the job?
Was Bryant lying when he said that Roy was probably the leader of the rouge reps? Was he lying about Holden being on life support? Was Tyrell lying when he said that Rachael's V-K test took more than a hundred questions confirm she was a replicant? Did Roy really not do anything extraordinary?
Thit and thpin!
So you are of the opinion that Batty is alive and well, having faked his own death after returning to his creator to demand more life even though Batty was aware that it was unnecessary since he has an unlimited lifespan?
Expiration dates being approximate is a fact of life.
Was Roy not showing signs of impending breakdown when he first appeared in the phone booth?
Why could Leon have not infiltrated Tyrell Corp. before the rest of the group attempted the break-in? Maybe Roy's plan was to get Leon to be the inside man for the job?
Was Bryant lying when he said that Roy was probably the leader of the rouge reps? Was he lying about Holden being on life support? Was Tyrell lying when he said that Rachael's V-K test took more than a hundred questions confirm she was a replicant? Did Roy really not do anything extraordinary?
Roy puts on an act for Deckard, and he tells us the audience that he's putting on an act for Deckard!
Expiration dates being approximate is a fact of life.
Except it was made all too clear that the replicants are not machines, but humans.
The question is, how does Roy know that he's dying right then and there, when he says "Time to die"?
If you go on that road, everything is possible. But what we have on film, is Bryant making a claim, that is not backed by anything.
we are shown how Deckard lives with the false idea that "replicants are just like any other machine"
How is Roy the leader? At no point does he issue an order to any other in his group
How do we know Holden is on life support?
Tyrell is talking to Deckard who just finished the VK test on Rachael, what lie?
Roy did something extraordinary, alright: he pulled a white dove out of the thin air, in a future where animals don't exist anymore...
How is that relevant to my expiration question? How is the replicant four-year lifespan any different than a cancer diagnosis with doctors estimating that the patient has six months to live?
Why is it okay for you to go down that road but not me? Especially when my ideas actually make sense, as opposed to yours?
When exactly are we shown this? Everything up to that point hints that Deckard quit the job because he didn't truly believe that.
Why would Bryant bother with a lie like that? If anything, tell Deckard that Holden died would make him more likely to take the job willingly. You are the one who said everything Bryant said was a lie.
You tell me. According to you, everything Tyrell said was a lie. If you admit that he made a factual statement, then your whole theory is null and void.
Hell, some patients diagnosed with cancer live well beyond the doctor's estimations...
I'm only observing what's in the movie
Leon kept coming to the job
When Deckard first meets Rachael in Tyrell's office, he tells her these very words: Replicants are like any other machine, they're either a benefit or a hazard
Bryant shows Deckard a file where Leon is labeled as Combat, Ammo Loader, Mental level C, below a prostitute, yet he's been employed as an Engineer in the Tyrell building.
Tyrell is lying from start to finish
eg. an assembly line for replicants
Pretty sure the p.a. voice said Leon was a waste disposal engineer. More commonly known as a garbage man, or maybe even a janitor.
Except for Mr. Chew manufacturing eyes.
So being a garbage man or janitor requires a four-year college degree, which Leon should not be qualified for as a Mental C (which I guessing means low to average intelligence)? The guy was dressed like janitor and did not come across as being too bright. I don't think the corporation had him designing and building the sanitation equivalent of hyperdrive engines.
if a dentist manufactures a tooth to replace my broken one, I'm a robot?
look what Tyrell says:
It wouldn't obstruct replication, but it does give rise to an error in replication. So that newly formed DNA strand carries a mutation and you've got a virus again.
So being a garbage man or janitor
There is nothing to indicate that different parts are not designed and created by a number of specialists.
I thought you said everything Tyrell said was a lie? Are you trying to say that replicants are not based on human DNA?
There is nothing to indicate that different parts are designed and created by a number of specialists, either. All you got is Tyrell's convoluted admission that he has no control over the DNA processes.
effort
Was Bryant lying when he said that Roy was probably the leader of the rouge reps?
Yeah, I sometimes forget how to spell.
But according to critzu, Bryant should've told Deckard that Roy was basically the water boy of the group.
Thit and thpin!
Yeah, I sometimes forget how to spell.
But according to critzu, Bryant should've told Deckard that Roy was basically the water boy of the group.
When writing a reply it just makes a red squiggle below the word if it is misspelled. But since "rouge" is an actual word, it didn't and I subsequently didn't notice.
Not certain what you mean by "water boy." Can you elucidate? Do you mean he sends others to do the 'dirty work' while he just watches and provides support? I think Batty's more like the coach of the team.
OK, makes sense. There are people on here that I think are 'borderline,' but WTF, they are entitled to their opinion and their say. (So are we!). BR is not quite a move without controversy.
I remember several scenes in which Batty appeared to be giving non-verbal directions. Nods, visual directions, etc. As well as a few verbal ones:
"Roy: Very good Pris, now show him why."
Impossible is illogical.
Lack of evidence is not proof.
ξ + ξ = ξ
[deleted]
Right. It's encoded in the DNA in every cell of their body. Makes absolute sense that there's nothing that can be done.
-I was born in a crossfire hurricane.
Right. It's encoded in the DNA in every cell of their body. Makes absolute sense that there's nothing that can be done.
How do you infer from Tyrell's admission of impotence, that he had anything to do with Roy Batty's birth, or an alleged (by Bryant) life span limit, is beyond me.
This isn't the first time, DrAndrei. It amuses me to watch guys like criztu and creamyalex spewing out gallons of bullsh!t and seeing how long it take to get an angry post saying that I'm on ignore.
Thit and thpin!
I've just been reading this thread with my mouth agape at the absurdity of one posters statements, starting with the unreliable narrator faux pas. Reminds me of someone else who's been in the media a lot lately....If you tell a lie often enough they'll believe it.
Reaction time is a factor in this, so please pay attention.
When you bake a cake you can't go back and take two eggs out as that specific mixture has. become part of the underlying code. It is the same as setting the system to fail after a set period of time. Yes it is possible they could live longer, and it is possible they could die sooner. I think it all comes down to how and where they live their life i.e. if you had a replicant in a coal mine his body could fail sooner from stress, strain and toxic environment than one working as an office assistant
shareIt is the same as setting the system to fail after a set period of time.
But because the replicants were not machines, but human beings, the whole replicant industry is actually slavery, and Tyrell is simply a corporate fascist who treats humans as objects.
I think I finally get what you're trying to say. You mean that Tyrell couldn't have programmed a termination date into the replicants because it would've been morally wrong to do so. Or is it that the replicants were humans who were kidnapped off the streets and brainwashed to think they were replicants?
Except for the guy that was actually a specialist who designed and created parts of the replicants.
Tyrell never even confirms that he programmed a termination date into the replicants.
'genetics' is all about organisms, life, humans, while
'engineering' is all about inorganic, machines, objects
you don't need an eye lab to make eyes separately.
The replicants are humans. If at first I thought they're humans grown in the lab, I gradually realized that they are simply humans, and Rachael's picture with her mom is real.
He confirmed it when Roy said "I want more life, facker," by not responding with "Whatchoo talkin bout, Batty?" He simply proceed to try to explain why it was impossible to (as jslobojan put it) remove the eggs from the cake that is Roy's DNA.
Exactly. Genetic engineering is a thing in real life. It's much more advanced in sciene-fiction. The replicants are not born. They are engineered. Artificially. In a laboratory/factory. How exactly does this make the four-year lifespan implausible?
Basically, at this point, you're arguing that we should pay attention to things that are not stated in the movie, while also paying attention to things that are stated in the movie. All this while simultaneously suggesting that we ignore things in the movie and ignore things that are not in the movie. Truly insane people do not know that they are insane, so I will not ask you if you know that you are insane.
Thit and thpin!
[deleted]
Very well. I shall ask him. He'll probably dodge the question or make up some lie, so please be sure to let me know the true story.
Thit and thpin!
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But during his lecturing, he made the mistake of making a claim "Blade Runner takes place in an unknown city."
Basically, at this point, you're arguing that we should pay attention to things that are not stated in the movie
It's called subtext and metaphor. Blade Runner is all about subtext and metaphor.
One can't even make sense of the apparent layer of the story - eg. "machines more human than human" - throngs of people are bored to death by Blade Runner, because of that.
Once you familiarize yourself with the symbolism of Christianity, Gnosticism, Alchemy, you'll make a much better sense of Blade Runner.
This movie is about a gnostic demiurge, a prodigal son killing his maker, and a man setting himself free from spiritual darkness, through union with a woman.
One can't even make sense of
a prodigal son killing his maker
I don't know how you pick up any symbolism or subtext from a movie where you chose to ignore everything that happened in it.
I think you're under the impression that I've been referring to the replicants as robotic machines. Once again, you demonstrate an inability to pay attention to simple (or complex, for that matter) details. Just re-watch the movie. This time without taking Ambien.
Bad editing, plus going for style over realism.
Deleting scenes before filming and failing to edit other scenes that reference the deleted ones. Also known as bad editing.
Sebastian was a trusted employee, plus sloppy writing because the story had to move along before the audience got too bored.
Zhora didn't allow *beep*. Deckard's got the magic, baby!
By using his super-commando reflexes. Why are you under the impression that all animal species with the exception of humans were extinct? Again with the Ambien. It'll totally mess up you film-going experience.
Thit and thpin!
I think you're under the impression that I've been referring to the replicants as robotic machines.
Zhora didn't allow *beep*. Deckard's got the magic, baby!
In the movie Blade Runner, Deckard states loud and clear that "replicants are like any other machine".
If you take the words of Bryant or Tyrell as truth, then surely you also take Deckard's words as truth. In which case, you're forced to start from the premise "replicants are machines".
if "machine" doesn't mean 'machine', then "human" may also not mean 'human', "genetics" may also not mean 'genetics' but something else, "DNA" may not mean 'DNA' but something else, "engineers" may not mean 'engineers' but something else, and so on.
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I am talking about the movie, not about your version of it.
"replicants are like any other machine".
Once you got here, you're stuck in massive nonsense.
criztu, do you know which city Blade Runner takes place in, and how do you know?
Thit and thpin!
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As others have said, Tyrell explained to Batty that the Nexus-6 Replicants were designed from the beginning to have a four year lifespan. Once the Replicant was fully built and operational it would be too late to change anything because the entire Replicant's body was designed to fail within four years. Attempting to change their DNA and cells after that inadvertently caused "viruses" and other problems.
Although Tyrell isn't necessarily an unreliable narrator, I do very much agree that he's unreliable. He has Deckard subject Rachel to a V-K Test to reveal that she's a Replicant, Tyrell has been lying to her this whole time so that she thinks she's a human, and when Rachel begins to question this, Tyrell stops speaking to her and won't see her. This sounds like kind of a sh!tty person to me, or at least someone who reeeeally enjoys showing off his power and intelligence. Especially since he's already got several defective Replicants running around LA and doesn't seem all that concern with causing another one to go rogue.
Keep in mind that Tyrell is still a frail old man and suddenly has this Nordic-looking combat Replicant standing in his room asking for more life. Tyrell isn't going to fight his way out, so he starts building up Batty by saying how superior he is and by saying that Batty is the best they could have made him.
Who knows? I don't know if all the scientific jargon was real or science fiction but I'm kind of inclined to think Tyrell was BSing him to try and get out of being killed without giving a defective product (which I'm sure is how Tyrell viewed such Replicants) more life.
Can't be too careful with all those weirdos running around.
Although Tyrell isn't necessarily an unreliable narrator ... Tyrell has been lying to her this whole time so that she thinks she's a human ...
For good reason. If you're want to create replicants that go through life as humans amongst humans, replicants that are more human than human, the last thing you want to do is to destroy the illusion that they are human. The main purpose of Rachael's existence is to see if they can pull it off. That's why Tyell, obviously, didn't tell her the truth. He doesn't want the experiment to fail. That doesn't mean he's lying about everything. We're seeing a glimpse of the future of where replicant technology is most likely heading to. One of Rachael's functions in the movie is to mentally prepare the viewer for Deckard so that the surprise doesn't come completely out of the blue.
Once the Replicant was fully built and operational it would be too late to change anything because the entire Replicant's body was designed to fail within four years. Attempting to change their DNA and cells after that inadvertently caused "viruses" and other problems.
I'm satisfied with that. Especially with Batty whose cells have almost completely broken down. The point is to get rid of them for good and to make sure the process is irreversible. I don't see the point of building in a safety net that can undo it all. It wouldn't be a smart thing to do and they are a replaceable commodity. It seems to me that, even if there's a remedy, he's already far beyond saving.
Alex
As others have said, Tyrell explained to Batty that the Nexus-6 Replicants were designed from the beginning to have a four year lifespan.
Once the Replicant was fully built and operational it would be too late to change anything because the entire Replicant's body was designed to fail within four years.
Keep in mind that Tyrell is still a frail old man and suddenly has this Nordic-looking combat Replicant standing in his room asking for more life. Tyrell isn't going to fight his way out, so he starts building up Batty by saying how superior he is and by saying that Batty is the best they could have made him.
Tyrell never says anything about no built-in fail safe device 4 year life span.
Once the Replicant was fully built and operational it would be too late to change anything because the entire Replicant's body was designed to fail within four years.
No. Roy Batty asks Tyrell if it's possible for the god of biomechanics, the maker, to repair what he made, give his prodigal son, the light that burns twice as bright, more life.
Tyrell blabbers how he has no control over DNA processes once they are set in motion.
You're assuming Tyrell has no security cameras, to see who's coming into his apartment, and try kill him.
Tyrell knew full well that his prodigal son is coming home to kill his father.
his prodigal son is coming home to kill his father.
Once again, you contradict your own claim that Tyrell did not create Batty.
But you've been saying that Tyrell did not create replicants. Do you finally admit that you don't know what you're talking about? It seems that you are the one who thinks that Tyrell is Momma Batty's baby daddy. You keep calling Roy a prodigal son while also preaching that Tyrell was just shanghaiing ordinary people into slavery and had nothing to do with their creation.
You are so self-contradictory that you should change your name from "criztu" to "Col. Jessup".
Thit and thpin!
But you've been saying that Tyrell did not create replicants.
ξ
Worst backpedaling ever, Col. Jessup.
Thit and thpin!
It's explained in the book Future Noir, either by Scott, Fancher or Peoples. One of them visited Dennis Hopper who had an old New York Taxi, and he was explaining how older cars were better because they "ran forever" and they didn't have the "built in fail system", where they would need replacing after a certain number of years like modern cars of that time. So the idea was born that Tyrell purposely made his replicants breakdown after 4 years so they would need replacing, making more money for himself. He even states in the movie that "commerce is our goal here".
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