Replicants are used off-world only as a slave labour, right? But Deckard asks Bryant, "What do they risk coming back to earth for? That's unusual." If its so unusual for them to be on Earth then why have BR units here?
And why is it unusual for them to want to come to Earth? If they're fugitives its natural to want to get away as far as you can from where people know you and are looking for you.
Replicants are used off-world only as a slave labour, right? But Deckard asks Bryant, "What do they risk coming back to earth for? That's unusual." If its so unusual for them to be on Earth then why have BR units here?
This hints that at one time replicants were allowed on Earth. After being declared illegal, Blade Runners were probably created to clean up, uh, retire the Replicants remaining on Earth, which would explain Deckard's VO comment about having a "belly full of killing."
You've got it wrong: replicants are used Off-world - not off-world, and are illegal on earth - not Earth.
Deckard is puzzled that replicants risked their lives coming back to Earth, and trying to get into the Tyrell pyramid.
That's because Deckard is clueless. He thinks that replicants are machines - "like any other machine", he thinks they are illegal on Earth, and he thinks that the Off-world is some place off-Earth, where a new life awaits you, a chance to begin again, in a golden land of opportunity and adventure...
...plus, Bryant is missinforming him about the replicants and their actions.
In reality, Leon was already inside the Tyrell pyramid for 6 days, when Holden tried to put the machine on him. Contrary to Bryant's "they tried to break in 3 nights ago, and managed to get away, we couldn't catch them".
If Bryant was telling the truth, it would mean that Leon got inside the Tyrell pyramid, worked there for 3 days, then, he tried to break into the pyramid again, ran away when the police showed up, then he kept coming to the job for the next 3 days, bringing a gun with him, killing Holden, and then ran away again.
Holden who knew Leon's incept name, as Leon was working in the building of the very corporation claiming to have "created" him.
And then we have Rachael, who is a replicant, Bryant knows she's a replicant, Tyrell knows she's a replicant, yet she is allowed on Earth.
The moment Rachael leaves the Tyrell pyramid, and sets foot on earth, to have a drink with Deckard, she becomes illegal.
Bryant even says: I got four skin jobs walking the streets.
Understand?
1. Replicants are illegal on earth, not on Earth.
2. Tyrell pyramid is the Off-world.
3. "The streets" is the earth.
4. Deckard is clueless about the nature of the replicants, until he falls in love with one.
5. Replicants are more human than human. Not machines, as Deckard cluelessly believed in the beginning.
6. Bryant is lying about the replicants.
7. Replicants used as slaves in the Off-world, is Leon used as slave in the Tyrell pyramid.
8. Replicants fleeing the Off-world, is Leon fleeing the Tyrell pyramid.
9. Later on, Roy and Leon learn from that Chew guy at Eye World, that the answer for their quest is Tyrell, and they have to get inside the Tyrell pyramid to get to Tyrell.
That is because they never tried to break into the Tyrell pyramid before, as Bryant misinformed Deckard.
Understand
Tyrell pyramid is the Off-world.
A NEW OPPORTUNITY AWAITS YOU IN THE TYRELL PYRAMID COLONIES, RIGHT HERE IN LOS ANGELES!
Absolutely! And people that buy a ticket for Off-World, they are actually being used as the main ingredient for Soylent Green.
Alex
Have you seen anyone buying tickets to those colonies, to that golden land of opportunity and adventure, a new beginning?
But you can see the people cramming into the underground, in the streets, some are on bikes. there's barely any car, and they look like discarded sardine cans, and there's only a handful of flying vehicles, most likely all police.
Have you seen anyone buying tickets to those colonies, to that golden land of opportunity and adventure, a new beginning?
But you can see the people cramming into the underground, in the streets, some are on bikes. there's barely any car, and they look like discarded sardine cans, and there's only a handful of flying vehicles, most likely all police.
Why bother showing that? The story takes place on planet Earth, in the city of . There was never any need to show people going through the process of immigrating to Mars or wherever.
What exactly is this supposed to prove? This like saying that people in third-world nations have no ability or desire to immigrate to slightly nicer countries.
Now matter how hard you're trying to spin it, "replicants are like any other machine" means that replicants are machines, aka inanimate objects.
Except they are not.
Batty says, and then Pris says:
"Roy: We're not computers Sebastian, we're physical.
Pris: I think, Sebastian, therefore I am."
In reality, Leon was already inside the Tyrell pyramid for 6 days, when Holden tried to put the machine on him. Contrary to Bryant's "they tried to break in 3 nights ago, and managed to get away, we couldn't catch them".
If Bryant was telling the truth, it would mean that Leon got inside the Tyrell pyramid, worked there for 3 days, then, he tried to break into the pyramid again, ran away when the police showed up, then he kept coming to the job for the next 3 days, bringing a gun with him, killing Holden, and then ran away again.
No, no, no poor critzu. Leon had been working there for 6 days in order to discover ways they might break in. Then after working there for 3 days he came back at night with the others to try to break in.
Reaction time is a factor in this, so please pay attention.
No, no, no poor critzu. Leon had been working there for 6 days in order to discover ways they might break in. Then after working there for 3 days he came back at night with the others to try to break in.
then Bryant sent Holden to look for replicants
Bryant didn't send Holden to look for them. He sent Holden to the Tyrell building to administer Voight-Kampff tests on the employees, in case one of them was there.
Don't you find it funny how Leo got in, then tried to break in, then ran away from the police, then kept coming back in, even bringing a pistol with him, and killing a policeman, then he ran away again, like that joint was a 7/11 in Iowa?
When he broke in it was with others. Don't you think they would have wanted someone on the inside to try to learn what the weak points of the building were? It obviously didn't work as they had planned, but if he hadn't gone back to work wouldn't that look suspiscious?
then Bryant summoned Deckard, and showed him the interview between Leon and Holden, with Leon's name removed from the video recording.
At the end of the video Leon's incept data is shown including his name.
Reaction time is a factor in this, so please pay attention.
At the end of the video Leon's incept data is shown including his name.
I ask you, why is Leon's name removed from the interview with Holden?
As I stated - His incept data is shown on the screen during the interview and it clearly shows his name.
And why didn't Leon even bother to change his incept name, the name by which Tyrell corp. has him registered?
Why bother? Leon isn't an unusual name. I would imagine there are so many employees at Tyrell Corp that no one would make that connection, especially, as Deckard said' "What do they want out of the Tyrell Corporation."
Don't you find it funny how Leon is working for the very corporation that made him, using his inception name, the police is interviewing him by his inception name, yet nobody makes the connection:
Why would the police have known where the replicants had gone after the shuttle landed? All they knew was that they were on Earth. The first inkling they had was when the replicants tried to break in. It's not like they had the entire police force looking for them either. They didn't want it known that the replicants were there at all and the Blade Runner force was obviously small.
Reaction time is a factor in this, so please pay attention.
Replicants are superior in strength and agility to humans.
6 replicants allegedly killed 23 people and the crew of a shuttle, and landed in LA
6 replicants allegedly tried to break into Tyrell building, 2 of them died.
Holden is sent to interview employees, under suspicion that the remaining 4 replicants might try to infiltrate.
It makes absolutely no sense to leave Holden alone in a room with a potential replicant, who killed 23 people and the crew of a shuttle, and tried to break into Tyrell building.
It makes absolutely no sense to not put a potential replicant, who killed 23 people and blah blah, through a metal detector, before the interview with Holden.
It makes absolutely no sense that Leon was able to get out of the Tyrell building after he killed Holden, with the police on alert, ever since the replicants killed 23 people and blah blah.
It makes absolutely no sense for the replicants to try break into Tyrell pyramid, then go to Eye World, interrogate Chew, to learn that they have to get into the Tyrell building. Why did they try to break into Tyrell pyramid in the first place, then?
Leon's name was removed from the recording of the interview with Holden, because it would be obvious to Deckard that Holden knew Leon by his incept name. Bryant is misinforming Deckard, and us.
Holden was not testing Leon to see if he's a replicant. Holden was in fact "putting the machine on him", that is, inoculating his subconscious with the idea that he's a machine.
We witness Leon's rebellion in the Off-world, that is, he refuses to have the "machine put on him", and kills the agent who performs an act of dehumanization against him.
Later on, when Leon and Roy interrogate Chew, they realize they have to get back into the Tyrell pyramid.
Tyrell is surprised that the prodigal son - Roy Batty, didn't get to him earlier.
And why didn't Leon even bother to change his incept name, the name by which Tyrell corp. has him registered?
Leon is only a mental level C, after all.
As the one raising these issues, criztu, the burden of proof is on you to prove to us that Leon could not have done any of this with or without guidance from Batty. Repeating the same thing over and over with the occasional backpedal does not count as proof. Now, do it.
Thit and thpin!
I have just proven how impossibly odd is the story of Leon:
1. Leon infiltrates Tyrell corp. under the exact same name, and with the exact same physical appearance as they made him, without them bothering to run a basic name search in their data base.
You'd think that a corporation the size and importance of Tyrell - basically owning Los Angeles, would have a data base of the replicants it makes. Especially since Leon's type are virtually identical to a human being, and illegal on earth, due to their murderous ways.
2. If Leon is indeed a mental level C, below Pris, below Roy, a mere ammo loader - as seen on the file Bryant shows Deckard, then how did he manage to fool the Tyrell corp into hiring him as an engineer? How?!
You're asking me to believe that Leon Kowalski - who is barely 2.5 years old, and was designed to load ammo into a ship's cannon all day, was able to pass through an interview for a job as an engineer.
3. Leon brings a gun with him at the job, and Tyrell corp. doesn't mind. They manufacture rebellious murdering machines, yet they don't have security, a basic metal detector.
4. Then the police, sending Holden to interview a potential murderous replicant, who is superior in strength and agility to him. Alone! Alone with a replicant!
The most powerful Tyrell corp and the police, would like to apprehend the murderers of 23 people and a shuttle's crew, but they just can't be bothered to send 3-4 guys to assist Holden in case he gets himself one such murderous robot. advanced robot. evolved, whatever. just, awww...
5. Imagine Holden, called in to interview this dude Leon Kowalski, new employee, engineer, waste disposal, 6 days.
Imagine Bryant telling Holden, before sending him to the interview: 6 replicants killed 23 people and jumped a shuttle, two nights ago they tried to break into Tyrell building, but got away when we showed up, we think they might have infiltrated, go test the new employees.
And Holden goes to Tyrell corp. and doesn't bother checking this Leon Kowalski's name against the Tyrell data base of replicants.
This would be like a Stan and Ollie movie, hilarious... if it wasn't all designed as fodder for the standard movie goer, who's expecting to see Indiana Jones in Space, with Robots.
Still just repeating yourself. Do better next time.
Thit and thpin!
2. If Leon is indeed a mental level C, below Pris, below Roy, a mere ammo loader - as seen on the file Bryant shows Deckard, then how did he manage to fool the Tyrell corp into hiring him as an engineer? How?!
You're asking me to believe that Leon Kowalski - who is barely 2.5 years old, and was designed to load ammo into a ship's cannon all day, was able to pass through an interview for a job as an engineer.
3. Leon brings a gun with him at the job, and Tyrell corp. doesn't mind. They manufacture rebellious murdering machines, yet they don't have security, a basic metal detector.
Engineer, waste disposal, means trash collector.
Why do you assume the gun was metal?
If you have flying cars, why not plastic guns?
We don't know when Bryant was updated or when the identities were released, or even when the replicants were identified.
"There are 11 professionals named Leon Kowalski, who use LinkedIn to exchange ..." One is an attorney. It's not an uncommon name.
criztu - you are creating assumptions out of whole cloth, being sarcastic and then falling back on gnostic mythology again.
I Googled "engineer, waste disposal," and it's basically a sanitary engineer, a fancy name for a waste collector.
Tyrell corp. likely has more worksites than just the pyramid. We don't know if this occurred there or at another facility.
There's plenty of security at Tyrell, including "electrical fields."
Plastic guns existed in 2016, why not 2019?
I can see your points about gnostic interpretation within Blade Runner; I just don't think it's relevant in explaining the movie.
Likely Ridley put these things in there to give the movie a more mystical feel - appealing to our subconscious.
While you seem well-versed in gnostic interpretation, I question your grip on normal physical reality.
"Wormholes?" "Kryptonite?" The fact that airport security didn't use x-rays or pat-downs in 1982, when the movie was released, hints that perhaps the writers didn't even think of that as necessary. Most companies, even advanced technology companies, still don't use such techniques in 2017.
Impossible is illogical.
Lack of evidence is not proof.
+ =
Likely Ridley put these things in there to give the movie a more mystical feel - appealing to our subconscious.
Why do you assume the gun was metal?
I read ages ago it was indeed not metal and it weren't even bullets that Leon used either. I don't remember the details other then that the gun needed to be assembled from smuggled parts. There's a lot of background information for everything that you see, a lot of thought went into the making of the props, but Blade Runner isn't the kind of movie that explains everything.
Alex
I read ages ago it was indeed not metal and it weren't even bullets hat Leon used either.
"Intercom: Next subject, Kowalski, Leon, engineer, waste disposal, file section, new employees, six days."
"Bryant: There was an escape from the off-world colonies two weeks ago. Six replicants, three male, three female. They slaughtered twenty-three people and jumped a shuttle. An aerial patrol spotted the ship off the coast. No crew, no sight of them. Three nights ago they tried to break into Tyrell Corporation. One of them got fried running through an electrical field. We lost the others. On the possibility they might try to infiltrate as employees, I had Holden go over and run Voight-Kampff tests on the new workers. Looks like he got himself one."
Evidently, Leon was already there when the others tried to break in. Perhaps he was with them during the attempt, but went back to work the next day.
"There are 11 professionals named Leon Kowalski, who use LinkedIn to exchange ..." One is an attorney. It's not an uncommon name. There are dozens more NOT on LinkedIn. Just use Google, and that doesn't count those not on the Internet.
We don't know when Bryant was updated or when the identities were released, or even when the replicants were identified.
Impossible is illogical.
Lack of evidence is not proof.
+ =
[deleted]
I always chalked that up to poor writing. There's a lot of weird dialogue in Blade Runner. Sometimes when characters are talking to each other it sounds like they're having different conversations.
shareI always chalked that up to poor writing. There's a lot of weird dialogue in Blade Runner. Sometimes when characters are talking to each other it sounds like they're having different conversations.
Examples, please?
When Roy Batty tells Pris Leon has died, she responds with "Then we're stupid and we'll die!". That was a rather odd exclamation.
There's also Tyrell's exchange with Deckard "How many questions does it usually take to spot them?" and Deckard answers "I don't get it Tyrell,". Again, those two lines don't seem to sync up with each other.
From what I've seen in the Dangerous Days documentary, Ridley Scott wasn't doing a very good job communicating with his cast or crew. That's probably the source of all the incongruities in the dialogue. Maybe the lines made sense when Hampton Fancher or David Peoples wrote them down, but Ridley Scott couldn't get across to the actors how to express the dialogue.
to me1991; what Deckard says is that replicants coming to Earth from off world colonies are "unusual".
- But in "Blade Runner" there is a replicant who doesn't come from off of earth, Rachel.
In the movie Bryant tells Deckard about this, that Rachel escaped and that Tyrell reported Rachel which means that she would be killed by a blade runner.
- Bryant or Deckard or Gaff don't say that this is unusual.
- Secondly, it is explained in the movie by Tyrell (to Roy) that he is familiar with experiments on replicants to extend their life.
* It is reasonable to assume from both of these situations that Tyrell creates replicants on earth.
- He might experiment with them.
- Tyrell might be testing out a new model of replicant which seems to be the case with Rachel.
- And sometimes these replicants at Tyrell's facility get away from the lab or his building complex and blade runners are asked to kill these escaped replicants.
* So, blade runners are necessary for the police force. There aren't very many of them as we see in the movie (only Holden, Deckard and Gaff).
But they are ready to kill replicants in a very discreet way since the general population on earth is not supposed to know about escaped replicants, whether from Tyrell's company or from off world colonies, (as explained by Bryant in the film).
Imo at least, BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈