Least Favorite Moment?


There's a terrific thread here that's been going on for years about your favorite moment. How about least favorite (favourite for our British friends)?

For me:

Anything involving Charles' wife Celia--though Jane Asher is a very good actress--but especially the scene in which we first meet her in the hotel room in New York.

I realize the moment is meant to evoke emptiness--the complete emptiness of their marriage--but it makes for a very dull scene.

Much of episodes eight and nine are less interesting than the rest of the series--with the big exception of the wonderful appearance of Anthony Blanche near the end of episode nine. He comes across as a welcome ray of sunshine.

Charles' courtship of Julie aboard the ship is not as interesting as it should be.

Any other moments that disappoint?



"Mice work in mysterious ways."
"No, dear. That's God."

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I find the opening dull with the army on the move. The series gets going when they wash up at Brideshead. Before that it is, to use a famous Waughism, 'meh'.


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@dizepat on Sat Aug 17 2011

I agree with what you say about Charles and Celia, and also about episodes eight and nine. In general, the early episodes are more interesting than the later ones, despite the fact that the latter constitute the major points of the series (Lord Marchmain's repentance and Charles's conversion). Both of these scenes are handled well. But the episodes in question are simply too long.

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@dizexpat

You ask, in effect, "What is your least favorite moment in the series?"

Three days ago I indicated several scenes I find tiresome because they are too long.

Today I shall add: Any of the scenes with Mr Samgrass.

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Mr. Samgrass utters the single funniest line in Brideshead Revisited. One of the funniest lines that Evelyn Waugh ever wrote.




"I've got six black Cordelias. Isn't that lovely?"

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@dizexpat on Sat Jun 16 2012

Please remind me of the line, dizexpat. I tend to tune Mr Samgrass out.


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"What will you do when it's dead? Can you have another tortoise fitted into the shell?"

It's one of the funniest lines that Evelyn Waugh ever wrote.




"I've got six black Cordelias. Isn't that lovely?"

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@dizexpat on Sun Jun 17 2012

That is wonderful indeed. Thank you for posting it.

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Although he's a pompous, self-important bore, I almost admire Mr. Samgrass for cleverly latching himself on to Lady Marchmain, who becomes his personal bank, financing his entire Middle Eastern trip on the pretense that he's taking care of Sebastian which, of course, he isn't.

Too bad we don't actually see his comeuppance, when Julia tells her mother the truth about him. We only hear it second-hand.

It's not instrumental to the story, but it would have made for a good scene.



"I've got six black Cordelias. Isn't that lovely?"

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I realize the moment is meant to evoke emptiness--the complete emptiness of their marriage--but it makes for a very dull scene

Interestingly for some reason I find the same in the scenes between Charles and his father at the dinner table. You can tell there's a bit of verbal fencing going on but to me it comes off as one-sided affair with Gielgud getting the punches in. Perhaps in written form the scene 'works' but on film it comes off that Ryder is shown passively taking the barbs but not really engaging himself with that 'fencing'. Just made it a little dull for me though I'll say there was a bit of Waughian comedic elements going around the battlefield table which I liked. Which leads me to say that Mr. Eveleyn Waugh has to be one of the greatest "comedy" writers in the century.He's written some of the most funniest lines in all of literature. His command of language to get laughs is 'awesome'...;-)...So even then in that disappointing scene I still can wind up off my seat with laughs going through me.

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@ deeveed on Tue Jun 19

I agree with you, deeveed, even though John Gielgud plays the role of Ned Ryder to perfection. He is wonderfully humorous. Yet some of the scenes in which he appears tend to drag.

You recall that Laurence Olivier remarked that when given his choice of roles he selected Lord Marchmain over Ned Ryder. He later regretted that he had done so, saying that Ned Ryder's role was much richer than Lord Marchmain's.

Whatever the case, I cannot imagine Laurence Olivier playing Ned Ryder as successfully as Gielgud does.

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John Gielgud plays the role of Ned Ryder to perfection. He is wonderfully humorous. Yet some of the scenes in which he appears tend to drag.


Can't see that myself. Every minute he's onscreen is a comic gem!


The credits list his character's name as Edward Ryder. I'd have to check the novel to see if his first name is ever mentioned there. It certainly isn't at any point in the series. I'm really not sure why he isn't listed simply as "Mr. Ryder".




"I've got six black Cordelias. Isn't that lovely?"

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Just wondering..did Mr Waugh ever meet Mr. Gielgud?..I would love to be the fly on the wall when they'd converse....;-)....

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@dizexpat on Wed Jul 11 2012

It's not John Gielgud himself who tends to drag: It's the people in one or two of the scenes in which he appears--specifically, Miss Orme-Herrick and her bored audience during the cello-playing episode. The scene is just too long. Jorkins' presence stretches it out, but I wouldn't want to do without Jorkins.

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@ dizexpat on Wed Jul 11 2012

Actually, dizexpat, I picked up the name "Ned Ryder" from another poster. I can't vouch for the fact that he's ever actually known as "Ned."

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Can't see that myself. Every minute he's onscreen is a comic gem!


I emphatically agree. I've never been bored with Ryder Snr's. scenes, although some of them are so brief as to not allow that much to go on. I thought the stuff with Jorkins and the miserable cellist was ludicrously funny. It also makes clear that Charles' father is always supposed to be master of the situation. It would be a little uncharacteristic for Charles to try to hand it back to him.



'Irregardless' is not a word

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I don't like the scenes by the fountain with Charles and Julia -- not the "peace" scenes, where Julia wants a few years of "real peace" etc. and definitely not the two crises at the fountain. The two of them just don't work together there.

But I liked the scenes between them on the ship; and I think their scene on the stairway is gut-wrenching.

Part of my problem is that Charles is at his least appealing and least interesting while living with Julia at Brideshead. He looks like such a fop, and such a poseur, it's hard to care about him or their relationship.

When I first saw the series, I sorry to see Sebastian fade away, because he and Charles were so fascinating together. But all these years later, I enjoy watching it for some of the funny scenes. I,too, love the tortoise line -- also Bridey's comment about there being no moral obligation to be Postmaster General or live to walk ten miles at 80. Rex Motram is a brilliant character, and Boy Motram hysterical. Etc. etc.

But way back then, and ever since, I cringe inside during the fountain scenes in that episode.

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@ bejasus on Wed Jun 20 2012

You're so perceptive in your remarks elsewhere on the boards that I'm surprised you don't like the scene in which Julia cries near the fountain. A good friend observed that her acting is remarkable, given the fact that the scene is perhaps the most difficult one in the series.

On the other hand, I agree with you that "Charles is at his least appealing and least interesting while living with Julia at Brideshead. He looks like such a fop, and such a poseur, it's hard to care about him or their relationship."

I also agree that it was hard to lose Sebastian from the series. No one could have acted the part better than Anthony Andrews--especially since in real life he is not gay. Neither is Jeremy Irons, for that matter.

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I dislike the ending.

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When Lady Marchmain tells Charles that the rich can sin by envying the poor's privileges I wanted to rip her throat out.

The scene is very well-acted and very cleverly telling re her Ladyship's character but she is so insufferably smug, she really is the poster child for the 1%.

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It's funny, though I wouldn't call it one of my least favorite moments.

To be fair, let's refer to The Flytes as being among The Top 2% rather than The Top 1%.

I quite enjoy when Lady Marchmain says that when she was born, she was "comparatively poor". Meaning, that at the time of her birth, she only ranked among the 5% of the wealthiest people on earth.

When she married, she became a member of The Top 2%. For her, that was a big step up.

For those of us who must wake up early in the morning, and catch a bus or train in order to arrive at a job that makes it possible for us to pay our rent, Lady Marchmain's "problems" aren't necessarily easy to relate to.




Hair today. Goon tomorrow.

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I've just been watching the middle episodes and personally, as I can only speak for myself, I haven't been finding episodes eight and nine boring. Obviously it's different without Sebastian in the picture but the story naturally moves on.

As far as Celia, as you mentioned, it's meant to be an empty, unhappy marriage. Celia comes across as a sort of plastic woman as she's meant to, especially beside Julia during the shipboard sequence. She's a social climber, interested in building her husband's career in ways he'd never entertain. Which is a little ironic, actually, as Charles also aspires to the upper classes. Overall, their marriage seems very detached for both of them. Otherwise, why would he refer to Caroline as "your baby" and "it", and why would she not even bother mentioning the baby's name in her letters? And I wonder if that line was Charles' way of facetiously expressing his feeling that Celia was marginalizing him in the family life? Of course, he had been gone for two years. All in all, it seems like fault on both ends. Call me weird, though; I could actually have watched a lot of Charles and traveling and painting, growing a beard. He describes a ten-year "dead period", but I think most people would find his traveling life quite adventuresome and fun, not to even mention the creative/artistic immersion. I know I would have. Granted, you can't leave his domestic life out of the picture.

One reason the scenes with Celia may have seemed off is that we were introduced to Charles' marriage very quickly, when ten years were condensed into a few minutes onscreen. Funny that you mention Antony Blanche. He was also seen in Episode 7. It almost seemed to me like the party they were at could alternatively have been used to introduce Celia. Didn't Boy actually say something about it having to do with his sister? Still, it seems like the filmmakers made the conscious choice to sometimes handle exposition by *not* explaining and letting the pieces appear in front of the viewer.

To me, the shipboard setting is very interesting with wonderful romantic overtones. So I actually enjoy those parts quite a bit. Overall, it's very difficult to choose a least favorite. In my opinion, there's very rarely a boring moment and even more rarely an ill-advised one.


'Irregardless' is not a word

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When Charles goes to meet Sebastian in Morocco. Luckily it's not overly long.

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Well, it's the entire second half of episode seven and I quite like it. The scenery and atmosphere are quite a change of pace.

I like the character of Kurt (though I certainly wouldn't want to know him!) and his odd repetition of the phrase "I reckon" which sounds peculiar for a German.

And, of course, it's our very last glimpse of Sebastian.





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