MovieChat Forums > Victory (1981) Discussion > Shame on Bill Conti

Shame on Bill Conti

posted 20 years ago by Mahler1860
9 replies | jump to latest

I have only seen this movie once, it was on cable at like 11 in the morning or something. The only reason I even watched it at all is that it contained music from my favorite composer(or so I thought). Dmitri Shostakovich wrote a moving and personal Smyphony No. 5 in response to a threat from none other than Joseph Stalin himself. This symphony is quoted, in some spots, note for note, and yet most of it is changed just slightly, leading me to believe that Conti knew he was plagiarizing and half-heartedly attempted to paraphrase, rather than plagiarize(he failed in that attempt). The REALLY ironic thing is that Shostakovich wrote this symphony as a tragedy, with the "triumphant" ending really a view of the forced exaltation of the Soviet people by an oppressive regime. Subsequently, Shostakovich 5 is probably the WORST music to quote for a movie of this content. I'd really like to believe that there was some mention of Shostakovich in the ending credits, but they were nearly squeezed off-screen so that whatever station this was playing on could air a commercial. I have been unable to find this movie in Blockbuster, so I'm hoping perhaps someone owns it, or at least knows it well enough to tell me if there is even the smallest note pertaining to already composed music. Conti's bio says he studied at Juilliard; I'd very much like to believe he did not rip this music off, but even if he didn't, a well-trained musician should know these facts about this very important piece of music. Can anyone help Bill Conti clear his name?

[–] tmf_scipio 20 years ago

If this use of Shostakovich's 5th symphony bothered you, watch Troy. Horner uses the main theme from mvt. 4 as Achilles theme. He changes it enough to make it even more annoying.

...these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

[–] mps1975 20 years ago

Ah well, I suppose there are only so many melodies that can be composed before they start sounding alike. I only saw Troy once so I don't recall the score, but have you ever listened to Horner's scores for Star Trek II, Star Trek III, and Krull? I can hear themes from Star Trek II and III in Krull. John Williams does this too. Granted they both write good stuff.

[–] OKinareh 20 years ago

IMHO - it probably was a temp-track imposed onto Bill Conti and he had to reproduce the music as closely as possible to satisfy the producers. Don't forget that John Huston was a HUGE fan of Classical Music so that could be it too. Finally, Conti is extremely musically educated (both in Italy and NYC) so it's maybe his decision after all.

Anyway, regarding TROY, I suggest you take a look at the rejected score by Gabriel Yared (which is really wonderful).

Yared spent a year on the movie and wrote 78 minutes of music which are quite incredible and represent a style of music not heard in "sandal epics" since the 1950's. In comparison, Horner only had two weeks on the project and had to work really fast hence the use of that haunting female ambience already heard in Gladiator.

Yared's score can be found over at Soundtrack Specialist (hope you have something to trade):

http://www.soundtrack-specialist.com/yared.html

Victory can be found there too:

http://www.soundtrack-specialist.com/conti.html

[–] jedi_knight_of_ni 20 years ago

I watched Rocky III the other day, and Ive got to say I recall the music on the final fight scene being very familiar to the match music on E2V, not to mention his Masters of the Universe soundtrack sounding mighty familiar also. Ive not heard the Shostakovich piece, but Im going to check it out, so thanks for the lead. I guess theres a fine line between being influenced and out right Plagerism, especicially in Hollywood.

[–] X-Evolutionist 20 years ago

I wonder if anybody else thinks so?

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See my site for evidence that God exists.

[–] 20 years ago

[deleted]

[–] X-Evolutionist 20 years ago

I hear "copying" a lot in movies. Maybe it is meant as a tribute to reference music from another source.

For instance, the Jerry Goldsmith's music for Patton had a certain trumpet tattoo off in the distance. I've heard that same sound in other movies. Maybe Jerry Goldsmith got it from someplace else first, I don't know. Anyway, I bought the Patton soundtrack when other people my age were buying rock and roll records. It was a great score.

You said "I can't write music to save my soul". Are you a musician? It sounds like you've tried to write music.

I glaced at your profile. You must come across a lot of interesting things in you work as a film archivist. That's very interesting.

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[–] redmanreturns 19 years ago

It was most likely someone ripping off Goldsmith. I always thought the score to Police Academy was very close to the Patton theme.

Also Conti has a history of getting close to the classics. His score to the Right Stuff sounds very close to Holst's Jupiter. Same with Masters of the Universe which sounds like Mars (although I disagree that using the same rhythm that Holst used is plagerism). There are some bits of Bach in Rocky. I think when it comes down to classical music that is PD you really can't have much of an argument. Think of it as the composer being inspired by that piece and tell yourself that they didn't blatantly rip it off. You may enjoy the film and not cause so much grief for yourself.

[–] X-Evolutionist 19 years ago

redmanreturns said:

Think of it as the composer being inspired by that piece and tell yourself that they didn't blatantly rip it off. You may enjoy the film and not cause so much grief for yourself.

That makes a lot of sense!

I've heard music inpired by The Planets, also. I just heard some in a movie a few weeks ago, but I forget what it was. (We watch a lot of movies at out house.)

X

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