MovieChat Forums > Thief (1981) Discussion > Is Frank naive or just plain stupid?

Is Frank naive or just plain stupid?


Can Frank seriously believe that he can adopt a child through legal channels as an ex-convict? After his blow-up at the adoption office, why coudn't he pursue the underground market in adopting children?
Secondly, how naive can he be when he agrees to let Robert Prosky help him adopt a child? Did he think that that would come without a price tag?
I'm all for movies that explore an anti-hero's sisyphean struggle to go straight and lead a normal life, but Frank(either through the writing/character development or how Caan played him) failed to gain my sympathy at the end of the film. He was a hot-tempered, volatile, testosterone-fueled lummox who hadn't an ounce of tact or control or savvy when dealing with people, his own-criminal element not-withstanding. The film should have been called,
"Sonny Tries to become an Independent."

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You're forgetting that Frank was also using the used car business as a front. As he told Sgt. Urizzi when he pulled him over, "I am a car salesman. You want a deal on a buick, come on down." But Frank's mistake was admitting his tenancy at the prison instead of his current employment, but the lady's question was specifically about his past, and also, if you remember Frank's conversation with Okla (at the prison), Okla told Frank, "Lie to no one." So Frank chose to tell the truth about his stint in prison rather than try to lie by concealment.

He tried to go through normal channels to adapt, because he had to be sure. He had to try before seeking other methods.

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"I really don't like talking about my flair."

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**SPOILER ALERT**

Yeah, I was disappointed in Frank's behavior as well. Someone who was raised in this environment all his life should have had enough antenna to predict what he was getting into. One wonders what his life would have been like if he just played ball with Leo.








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he was a different person by then. just like Neil in Heat. after they've met THE girl their radar became less sensitive and they became more human. Mann talks about this in the Heat extras. it is intentional character development.

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Exactly. When a man starts thinking with his dick, he stops thinking with his brain.

To see the only real monster, one must only look in the mirror.

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I think Frank shows signs of having a far more volatile personality than someone like De Niro's McCauley anyway. It's true that people tend to think of them as two sides of the same thieves-as-professionals coin that Mann trades in, but (beyond their obvious competency in their chosen field) the way the characters are played by the two actors really makes them quite different.

For one thing, Caan's thief is hot-headed and flashy. He shows his piece to a bouncer at a bar. He punches out a citizen at the least provocation. He peels out into the night in a giant car, almost killing a couple of bystanders. He gets into a shouting match with a government official, attracting the attention of security.

Neil McCauley would balk.

In fact, when I first saw Thief (in the afterglow of my initial romance with Heat), Caan's performance put me off a bit. I was expecting reserve and steely professionalism; what I got was a strange combination of De Niro's quiet furtiveness and Pacino's brash outbursts.

In hindsight, I think Thief is actually a better film than Heat -- maybe the best film of Mann's career, along with The Insider -- because Frank feels like a real human being. He may have started out as an undisciplined hothead, and traces of that remain, but he never allows himself to forget the lessons he learned in prison, not just to do with his new trade, but also to do with the mindset he mentions in the cafe.

But it's clearly a struggle for him, and Caan portrays that beautifully. I particularly like his most vulnerable moments, like when he finds out that Okla has died, or that Leo can get him a kid. The first time it's a sort of non-expression, like he doesn't know what to do with his feelings and doesn't want to show his hand, and the second time there's a childish disbelief, the kind a guy gets when he's not used to getting good news and can hardly fathom what joy feels like.

Hell, I think I'll watch this again tonight.

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I thought his most naive/stupid move was resisting paying off the cops. As Leo pointed out, it's just what you do, price of doing business.

I really like this film though; it doesn't bother me that Frank is kind of a *beep* up in certain ways.

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See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc

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They could have been entrapping him into a bribery arrest.


"...and Mrs. Taylor sure seems to use a lotta ice, whenever he's away."

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Yes he was naive, Frank spent alot of his life in prison and is unaware how "normal" citizens interact. He sees nothing wrong in going to a adoption agency providing he told the truth about his past history. That's why he got so angry when they refused, even though he was kinda right.

As he agreed to do 1-2 scores tops, he had no reason to doubt Proksy's intentions.

I know in film school you're taught that characters in screenplays have to be sympathetic and likeable to the audience but mann doesn't really care about that. You either do or you don't, He's not going to pander for everyone.

I ended up liking frank, I could emphazise with him when he says he's ran out of time, not enough to catch up. James caan played it wonderfully.

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One of the things i liked about Frank was he was completely honest with everyone. DIrect and straight to the point with Okla, Jessie, Leo and called out all the dirty cops. Even the adoption agency lady he was truthful

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