MovieChat Forums > Pennies from Heaven (1982) Discussion > does anyone feel that lars von trier was...

does anyone feel that lars von trier was heavily influenced

posted 18 years ago by jinx_malone
4 replies | jump to latest

by the film version of PFH while preparing to make dancer in the dark?

the general pessimism, somewhat conflicted and not always likeable male characters, a sweet and good hearted woman forced to commit acts she wouldn't normally do, the dreamlike changes from reality to fantasy and back again, and particularly the last bit with arthur singing on the scaffold just made me flash back to selma in the same predicament.

the only difference being that we don't see arthur swing, though i certainly believe he does.

anyhow, i've never read of lvt admitting to 'pennies' having any sort of influence on him but watching both films back to back, the similarities are extremely strong.

[–] TheArchKookPetulia 18 years ago

i often think of both films in relation to one another. i don't know if he's ever mentioned the influence but i'm sure it's there.

however, apart from bjork's amazing performance, i feel that Pennies is the superior work. many LVT films and a lot of Dennis Potter's work feature women put through bleak, horrible circumstances but the difference with Dennis Potter is that he's able to make the women tough and knowing. with LVT, it feels much more like simple manipulation: we're presented with a helpless woman and we watch her situation go from bad to worse. this is true with Pennies, but the women actually have brains, they're relatable and complex, we want to watch them for a variety of reasons apart from making sure they're okay. while i love the Dogme sensibilty, LVT's films always make me feel like i'm watching a kitten be strangled on screen. the manipulation is too easy and shallow on his part.

[–] jinx_malone 18 years ago

oh, i completely agree with you re: pennies as being the superior film. i find LVT to be offensive in a number of ways that i find hard to articulate, overall i think his view of the human condition is just unconscionably bleak and nasty.

i think it is interesting that you see his films as being not unlike watching a kitten being strangled on screen; my husband and i have long referred to his films as "sad dog" films, where you enjoy--if such could be said--the sight of a dog tied to a stick, standing shivering in the rain, who is then kicked to death at the end of the film.

i know on a technical level that LVT has a tremendous amount of talent, his mode of expressing said talent does not really work for me.

i had just given PFH another look this past week and was absolutely amazed at what i saw as some pretty blatant dennis potter-ripping-off on the part of LVT.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Ralyyy 13 years ago

I do agree that there are similarities: for me especially the dream-like musical sequences. But the two movies are very different apart from that.

You could say Pennies From Heaven involved a bad situation for the heroine, but still, this was generally an entertainment movie (which I enjoyed considerably). Dancer in the Dark is everything but that, and it made me feel absolute desperation and helplessness, more than any other movie. For me a superior movie is the one that affects you more deeply, and although Pennies From Heaven was quite great, I think LVT was aiming for something completely different, and it made a greater impression on me.