MovieChat Forums > The Dogs of War (1981) Discussion > Why Uzis?

Why Uzis?

posted 12 years ago by peter-501
15 replies | jump to latest

What bothers me about this is that Uzis seem like a really poor choice. In the book they use vintage MP40s from WWII, and there is a whole episode about the guns are smuggled from Belgium into France.

But in the movie they just decide to go with Uzis and this is never explained. I know in 1980 the Uzi was sort of the exotic firearm and maybe this makes sense to use it.

However, while it is a good close quarters small arm it wouldn't be close to ideal for this sort of attack. It spits ammo and they're dealing with reasonably untrained bush fighters who in a firefight could empty it way too fast.

At the least movie actually shows people carrying ammo boxes - which I thought was a nice touch.

It could be that the filmmakers could only come up with Uzis, but a few of the soldiers on the deck of the freighter have Mac-10s! In the days of VHS it was probably hard to tell, but it is a giveaway in HD - and when Derrick is firing the M-60 you can see he's firing blanks too.

Would have made a lot more sense to have them using AK-47s. Those were all over Africa in 1980 and could have easily been bought.

[–] libertarian45 12 years ago

I think the world was still having a love affair with SMGs in 1980. This fascination peaked with the SAS assault on the Iranian Embassy that same year (80). After this event, everyone wanted to use HK MP5 SMGs. Heck, if the SAS use them, they must be great, right? Also, before there was a lot of "high speed" kit, commandos etc always used SMGs - often in 9 mm (like the SOE silenced Sten guns of WW2. They were small, light (except for Thompsons...oy!), handy, often had folding stocks etc and could be concealed easily, full auto etc...So, if you wanted to be cool, you packed an SMG.

Uzis became the darlings of the 70s. Even more compact than most SMGs (with the mag inserted into the grip), battle tested and proven by the IDF, used by the IDF para commandos in the 76 Entebbe raid...Not as small as the Ingrams (MAC 10, M 11), but less "pimpy".

Result? They went with something cool looking over effective. The Wild Geese fell afoul of this as well with the big actors all running about with Uzis (although there were several FN FALs for the serious soldiers...). Honestly, I always thought Forsyth's selection of MP40s for his book were stupid. He was, however, smart enough to give them mortars.

You are absolutely correct that AKs would have made absolutely the best sense. Simple, reliable, familiar to most African hired soldiers, plentiful, in a decent rifle calibre (7.62X39), handy...Most importantly, they wouldn't raise as many eyebrows as expensive Western weapons...

It was around the 90s that I started to notice the belated demise of the SMG. It's taken most police forces the next 10 yrs to catch on. An AR15 (in M4 carbine form) is small yet is still a rifle that fires a rifle bullet. An MP5 or an Uzi is an SMG that fires a pistol bullet - period. You can get an M4 for almost half the cost of the MP5.

SMGs are dead (RIP) except in very specific circumstances...

[–] peter-501 12 years ago

I liked the MP40 twist, but I found it sort of unlikely.

It would have made more sense for there to have a cache of StG44s (MP44s), which the East Germans used briefly. That would have made more sense but the ammo would have been impossible to get.

I often wondered if Forsyth didn't think about a movie version and figured Hollywood knew MP40s. Plus all those WWII movies made the gun popular so it was easy to picture.

[–] thelastfaceyouwillsee 12 years ago

The IMFDB shows that some of the "Uzis" are Mac10s dressed up to look like Uzis.
As for the MP40s in the novel, well, it was written in 1974 maybe Forsyth was basing that choice on the availability of WW2 surplus arms. I was told there was plenty of ex-Werhmacht kit knocking around in Afica and the Middle East at that time. I agree that AK47s would have been a better choice - then and now. (I'm in Libya now - Nov.2012 - and there's masses of ex-Sov. kit around).

I gotta find out what makes a man decide not to run, why, all of a sudden, he'd rather die

[–] grendelkhan 11 years ago

In the time frame that the book was written, MP-40s and other German arms were fairly common, in the arms world. The AK-47 was starting to get spread around more, but would come into more prominance in the next decade. StG44s weren't that common in WW2, and weren't manufactured on the same scale as the MP-40 or the Mauser rifles, and, thus, didn't find their war into the secondary world of arms sales. Forsyth knew what he was talking about having seen the type of equipment used during the Biafran secession, in Nigeria.

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[–] ArchxStanton 12 years ago

The best choice is the FN FAL. The uzi was used because or ordinance reasons. It uses pistol ammo so the ammo they carry covers both types of guns they have. The FN is best bcause its the best assault rifle there is. But beyond that the africans are using it too Watching movie now on netflix. The uzis are smalll n easy to ship too. They were short on time remember assembling the team prolly uzis all they coyld get

[–] f-ascaso 12 years ago

At the time this film was made, Israel was selling arms and ammunition on a large scale on the cheap. IMI (Israel Military Industries) 9mm rounds could be bought at any gun store for less than the cost of reloads. And as was stated in a post above, the UZI was the sub machine gun of the day.

I think the MP40 would have been a mistake, on the big screen the MP40, like the Lugar and to a lesser extent the P38 were firearms universally associated with the Nazi's in war films. It may or may not be intentional that Walkers friend and comrade is shot in the back by a woman using a P38, and the potential despot gets it from Walken with a 1911. It makes sense that the film would not want equate the force in any way with WWII Germans in the audiences mind. The UZI up to this point didn't really have any (film) biases applied to it by the movie going audience, so it would garner a neutral to positive psychological image to the movie goer.

AK47's would have had a negative association too, as it was universally associated with communist block oppression, leftist/communist sponsored uprisings etc.

Perception is more important than reality; this is my take on the choice of weapons for the film. The Striker and the M60 were the slickest/coolest firearms used in the film, IMHO anyway.

"if it was any good they'd have made an American version by now." Hank Hill

[–] phillb29 12 years ago

I agree the FAL would be the best choice, as it appeared to be the standard weapon of the dictator's soldiers. It would make sense for the Mercs to arm themselves with the same weapons, as they could utilize any ammunition captured from the opposition.

If I remember correctly the Mercs weapons were purchased in Europe. This rules out buying AKs as they would be dealing with Western Arms Dealers selling Western weapons. I think it would be unlikely for European arms dealers to be supplying AKs at the time of the Cold War. If the Mercs wanted AKs they would most likely have to wait until they got to Africa to obtain them.

[–] nutmustardxx 9 years ago

The fn fal is the best..I've owned 2 of them and have owned many other assault rifles..hk 91s n 93s, aks. Etc...the fn js by far the best.
I think that for the uzi it was an ordinance issue in the movie...they wanted to use a sub machine gun because it shoots 9mm (or 45) as well as the pistols. Back then though the mac 10 full auto was the sub to go with. Myself...I'd go with fn but it's a long heavy gun, but I'll give away that for the accuracy and power of the .308.
My guess is its Hollywood and people who don't know guns think the uzi is special..that and the ordinance issue ..I dunno

[–] Blueghost 12 years ago

I haven't seen the film in years, but I was under the impression that they mostly used Mac 10s.

[–] crazydave682000 12 years ago

Uzis became the darlings of the 70s. Even more compact than most SMGs (with the mag inserted into the grip), battle tested and proven by the IDF, used by the IDF para commandos in the 76 Entebbe raid

Interesting fact the Sayet Maktal raiders used AK47 not Uzi during the raid.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] glenmusher 11 years ago

I think it is plausible that they would have maybe used Uzi's.

The movie is set some ten years later than portrayed in the book, so let's assume the events in the movie are taking place circa 1980/1981, roughly contemporary to when the film was actually made.

At this time they would not have been likely to get AK's as the Iron Curtain was still very much enforced, so they had to source what they could get from the European underground / Black Market (France/Belgium.)

Things had moved on a bit from the MP38's of the book+ using them in the movie may have given the merc's Nazi connotations.

I agree with the other poster that said that AK's would have given the Mercs negative Soviet/ Marxist associations also.

In the movie Kimba the dictator's army appear to be armed with FN Type rifles (Belize militia's UK supplied L1A1's), it would have made most sense to arm the unit with the same or similar type weapon overall, but they had time constraints against them.

In Africa in 1980, Soviet type weaponry such as AK's would have been a lot more likely - and indeed, still is.

Everything will be OK in the end, if it aint OK,it aint the end.

[–] Blueghost 10 years ago

Well, there is a strong Jewish influence in the American film and TV industry. I can only guess that there may have been a desire to promote the Israeli arms industry, and therefore the use of Uzis as opposed to Kalashnikovs.

I think if the film were remade today (using Kalashnikovs) it would be far more grittier, and perhaps outstanding, but only if they could find a lead actor of equal caliber to Christopher Walken.

[–] Ghosthunter123424 11 years ago

The MP40 was a SMG, they went with the UZI because it was more modern, more believable and they figured people would be familiar with them.

[–] stevekaczynski 9 years ago

In the book, Shannon is negotiating the purchase of the MP40s and the Belgian who is selling them claims they are the best submachine gun in the world. Shannon privately thinks Uzis and Sterlings are better but are difficult to obtain, at least in good condition.

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