MovieChat Forums > Cruising (1980) Discussion > Why straight liberals and many gays disl...

Why straight liberals and many gays dislike this movie?


I have read comments from gay men who lived then and were into S/M stuff that this movie is quite accurate.

Most gay characters in modern tv series and movies are hipsters, twinks, sensitive hunks, but I never seen an average working-class gay man (who is not an overtly clean cut dude) or butch lesbian in any mainstream stuff. Even in The L Word most women were what they call "femmes" in lesbian culture.

It seems to me that many people dislike this movie because it's not full of pretty boys who are clean cut muscular hunks... in fact I have read comments that gay men seen in this movie are out of shape, too hairy, sweaty, seedy and put right ugly.






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People get offended easily and I don't view this movie as a portrayal of all gays or think this movie was about the gay lifestyle at all, like Friedken said, the leather bars were a backdrop for a murder mystery, but people choose to see it as a commentary on gay lifestyles. Obviously this takes place in a subculture of the gay community, b/c there were actual murders going on in the leather bars in NYC and cops did what Burns did and went undercover, it wasn't sending a "message" that if you're gay you will be killed or become a killer, that's not what the movie was about, that was just a way to demonize it IMO.

Y'know, I could eat a peach for hours

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[deleted]

Cruising depicted gay and bisexual men as predatory vampires. That is why people got upset.

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Correct.

The subculture of the leather community were being mocked and wrongly portrayed in many ways, whether Friedkin intended it, or not.

I just saw a screening of this film a few nights ago - from a beautiful 35mm print - and it was the longest known version - complete with the dialogue at the end and the 45 seconds of bondage - and the audience was laughing at many different aspects of the film which were not intended to be funny, all of which were associated with the gay leather lifestyle.

It all comes down to the fact that Friedkin, no matter how prepared he tried to be for this movie, just didn't get it.

A pure example (a little reversed in portrayal) would be the same if someone made a movie about Nazis, portraying them as good guys, or as people that the audience is supposed to identify with. That would cause a great stir in EVERYBODY'S minds, let alone Jews and other European people who lived through the holocaust. There would be people trying to ban the movie and boycott like never before.

This was the case with the leather community back in 1979 during shooting. Certain gays were fighting for their rights as people, all to have this film portray them as "different", and "dark", as sohrmn stated, "vampires". In addition, the whole leather scene is treated like some costume party, taken as fluff, when in fact those in the leather community are so, because it's part of who they are - hence it's a subculture. The film "Cruising", as previouslt stated, depicts this as some hokey idea of men playing dress up.

Friedkin probably had good intentions behind this film, but the fact is that the only way he could get even the slightest notion of the idea for it's cinematic release past the white-washed, hetero-normative, early Reagan era MPAA was to present gay men as "bad" or "wrong", or at least "shady" so that audiences would be forgiving of the backdrop and storyline with which Al Pacino would be identifying himself for such a film.

The same thing later happened to a different extent at the other end of the spectrum, with "Making Love" (an excellent picture) two years later - in that film they tried desperately to portray the gay community as merely human, with well renowned straight actors portraying the homosexual characters to ensure that the crowds made the human connection - and audiences were disgusted by it.

The bottom line is that back in those days, we the people weren't ready to accept and have open minds about pictures, like we are now, no matter who was directing. Either they laughed at gay movies, and didn't take them seriously, or were disgusted by them and didn't take them seriously.

So yeah, straight liberals and the gay community have their reasons for resenting this picture. Nothing to do with Friedkin, nothing to do with the actors/filmmakers involved, and absolutely NOTHING to do with being "PC" (this goes beyond that).

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[deleted]

ITA; I was able to rise above the embarrassment of people thinking we're all "sick" in the head! ;-/

- http://myadultx2.blogspot.com/2013/03/james-franco-interior-leather-bar.html -

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[deleted]

The purpose of movies is not to portray "reality" in an accurate way, but to create their own reality and tell a story. This movie did not intend to realistically depict the gay S&M community, but to use it as a plot device, in order to create a dark and mysterious cinematic world.
We see this world through the eyes of Al Pacino's character, with a mixture of voyeurism and exoticism. Al Pacino's character is an outsider to this world, he is mesmerized by it, but never actually manages to understand it, or belong in it. It's not Friedkin who doesn't understand the gay S&M community, as you say in your comment, but the Pacino character. That's the film's brilliance: the S&M world remains an enigma, a mystery, something out of reach for the main character. No matter how much he tries to physically transform himself into a member of this community, observing, mimicking, and appropriating their members' behavior, habits, and dress codes, in the end, he fails and becomes disillusioned to the point of madness.

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You have to go back to that time. Pop culture depicted gay people in only one way back then, as deviants, considering people were fighting for the right just to be able to be gay and not get fired from their job or not get the *beep* beaten out of them I can see why people had issues.

Now we have had a cross section of depictions of gay men and women, so this film doesn't seem so bad, but in 1980 many audiences would not have known anyone who was gay (as plenty were in the closet more so than today) so the only reference they would have had would have been movies like this. Gay men were trying to fight against always being seen as sex crazed maniacs, plus the book is apparently more bigoted than the movie from what I have heard.

I think if depictions of gay men had been more well rounded back in 1980, no one would have been so upset about it. Through the 80's and even up to Silence of the Lambs most movies always showed gay men as psycho killers or deviants, plus Cruising wasn't the only target in 1980. The movie Windows was another one that got lambasted, because surprise, surprise it had a lesbian character who was crazy and stalking a woman.

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Gay community wanted to have a 'clean look' to enter the mainstream politics.

So they burn every bridge that can link them to a less than perfect image.

As an exemple: in 1980, there was still some official connections between The LGBT and the NAMBLA (heritage of the sexual revolution), it took years to get rid of it.

Not because Gays were pedophiles, but because some main actors of the sexual revlutions (leaders, intellectual) saw it as 'benign' or 'natural' (yes...)

Hays, Ginsberg, and many others... It was very much trendy in leftist ideology of this time.

For this film, the problem was the inner violence of the gay community. It's a taboo theme.

Even nowadays, it's very difficult to speak about violence between gays. The stats of domestic violence are the same as heterosexual violence.

Have you seen any major campaign about it ?

Plus, there's the serial killer problem. An absolut repellent for clean shaven perfect gay politician.

Jefrey Dammer, John Gacy, Nanzram, Nielsen, Gohl...

The film is quite good actually. It's too bad it has a bad rep. But of course homophobes won't like it, and mainstream PC gays seems uneasy about it.

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It's interesting about the portrait of gay males over the decades. Thru the '70s and '80s, whenever there was the rare gay character in a movie or TV show, they were shown as outrageously stereotypic, pathetic, or the portrait pretented to be positive but was really pandering.

After everybody started falling out of the closet en masse in the '90s, and TV series have become full of gay characters, they are either physically-idealized GQ porn studs, or their sexuality absurdly exaggerated cartoonishly as in QUEER IS FOLK, or caught up in mismatched relationship (like in MODERN FAMILY).

All of which is de-sexualizing, making it difficult to picture them as real guys with real sexual lives with other guys, and it's therefore more 'comfortable'. So they give you the politics of visibility, but no relationships which feel at all organic, so it's safe.

In the DVD commentary by the late, great Anthony Minghella to his film THE TALENTED MR RIPLEY, he observes during the essentially-chaste bathtub scene between Matt Damon and Jude Law that had the scene been between a man and a woman (or even two women, for that matter) that viewers would have asked "where's the sex?" but that between to testosterone-fueled men, even a glance at a naked butt just seems to scream from the scene.

Even hints of male homosexual longing is too potentially erotic, so it has to be obscured or indirect in some way, or politicized in a manner which may be seen as 'relevant' but has little to do with real carnality.

So we have subjectively different standards for different things which really aren't that different at all.

While it is true that the leather-bar S&M scene had become a big part of the gay underground in the late-'70s (and the same era seemed the height of the serial sex slayer trend as well, for some reason, the period nestled between the end of Vietnam and before the neocon/AIDS era) it's quite understandable that gay folks resented this predatory portrait of gay as sexual vampires when there was so little representation of homosexuality in mainstream cinema. So there was a huge backlash.

Something similar happened a few years earlier when POLICE WOMAN with Angie Dickinson did an episode where three homicidal lesbians were knocking off residents of a retirement home for their checks, based on a real life incident. Obviously, if these were nice lesbians, there would be no crime to investigate, and this is a crime series after all. And if the killers were hetero, no one would associate their sexuality with their murder spree. But because there was so very little reflection of homosexuality on screen at that time (and what there was was degrading) this TV episode was seen as "hateful" despite the writer insisting the message wasn't homophobic.

When CRUISING came out, a lot of gay people hated the portrayal. There was so little else in movies to point to which was gay-but-harmless (unless it was a limp-wristed cliche). But there was no "normal" presentation.

By the 21st century, however, with the changes in the culture both on the street and in film, gay folks had earned the right to be just as pathological and dysfunctional as their hetero brethren. So, today, CRUISING comes off as what it always really was: a late-'70s urban period piece, both brilliant and brilliantly-flawed. And so the creepy lust-slicer angle doesn't really bother anybody much nowadays unless they're still viewing it thru the lens of 1979/80 politically.



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gays like to be analy fisted.

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No, you like to be anally fisted.

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You really should keep your sexual fantasies to yourself, Cletus.

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