I've read a few interviews with Paul Schrader where he says the character of Carter in THE WALKER is basically an older version of Julian's character in this movie and has finally come out of the closet. I remember a lot of gay material in this movie but it never occurred to me that Julian himself might be gay. Do you suppose that's what Schrader intended at the time or that's a new idea he's had since?
shareI wondered the same thing when reading some of Schrader's press for 'The Walker' e.g. was this subtext always there or just recently realized by the director?
I guess there are enough moments in 'American Gigolo' to make the case that Julian is in the closet or at least asexual. He does have a history with Leon as his former boy-toy, he did scoff at Anne's offer to get some sun with her girls, and he did tell Michelle: "This is my apartment. Women don't come here."
Whether you're on board for the interpretation or not, it certainly shows the staying power of Schrader's characters.
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Without it being made really clear, the impression I got is that before Julian was taken under the tutelage of the high-class Ms. Anne, to survive, he worked for Leon, which involved kinky, homosexual clients. I know this doesn't quite click with his still working occasionally for Leon when he's working for Anne, but I think it's somewhat understandable in that Julian doesn't like being "possessed" by one master.
shareAs a huster, Julian was what was termed as "gay-for-pay."
shareI would say Julian was straight but he used Leon as a means to an end. He did gay tricks for Lean when he was down and out, sort of how he was willing to do gay tricks for Leon at the end when he was again, down and out. There are a few moments that make me think otherwise...
1 - When he first shows up at Annes pad and argues about money Julian goes..."You have lots a choices, you can keep dealing those retarded *beep* and Anne comes back with..."Look who's talking"
2 - When Julian goes to the probe, the one gay guy in leather greets Julian and says "Is this a homecoming, I haven't seen you for a while?"
3 - When Julian was at the art show with that old lady, he did too good of a job pretending to be gay.
Julian probably was gay at heart but saw more money in being a high priced Gigolo to wealthy older women so he embraced the straight lifestyle.
maybe his "closet" was just as much for himself as it was for the outside world.. most people who sell their bodies for sex aren't typically the most psychologically fit or in touch with themselves, it could very well be that he was gay and didn't realize it or simply wasn't ready to be honest with himself about it yet
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"This is my apartment. Women don't come here."
Ok I have no clue where you're going with this indication or implication or well lol I don't know now. I think Julian was obviously gay as when him and Leon are arguing at the night club he said he would go back doing tricks with men and all the other stuff that he started out doing. Do I think Julian prefers his homosexuality(if you can necessarily call it that) over his hetereosexuality is a toughie. People will do anything for money. I worked with this kid when I was younger and we would just stand around asking what we would do for ten million dollars......but where I'm getting at is Julian was not gay in general, he was just like anyone putting himself in the ranks and building to where he was at that moment. But desperate cries also have desperate measures......he would go back to tricking men and doing all the things Leon had him doing probably in the first start of his career.
I really liked this movie and coming on here to find it only has six stars out of ten makes me have this embarrassed feeling submerged deep down inside....even tho in no way, shape or form I'll ever be embarrassed with enjoying this movie!!!
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I don't know . . .
If you remember the desperation involved when Julian assents to return working for Leon turning "f@g tricks" . . . it seemed more like a "last resort" kind of thing, and not something that Julian was inclined to do normally.
In fact, he lumps homosexual clients in with "kink", when bargaining with Leon in a last ditch effort to get the heat off his back.
Then again, I don't think that Julian was "well-adjusted" enough psychologically for us to peg him down as belong to a cetain sexual orientation.
But his relationship with Michelle suggests that Julian was, at his core, heterosexual in his private life.
I agree; and if you read the book version of American Gigolo by Timothy Harris, it's even more apparent that Julian deeply loves and feels passion for Michelle; and that he does get some physical pleasure from satisfying his female clients.
share...that Schrader wrote an implied ambiguity to the character. Several times he's addressed as "Julie". The last name "Kaye" is even close to, well, you know.
shareI think Leon was bi or gay. But acted somewhat homophobic as a front.
shareHasn't it ocurred to anyone that he could be bisexual? Although I don't think that Julian really was into guys.
shareGood point - exactly my thoughts, even though it may have been he could be asexual / bicurious or "gay-for-pay" too.
shareHasn't it ocurred to anyone that he could be bisexual? Although I don't think that Julian really was into guys.
gay4pay perhaps
shareI thought there was gay innuendo but that was all. I have to agree with GLOCK's opinion. He offers to do "kink/fag" when he's desperate.
But hey, I could be completely wrong.
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LOL!
sharesorry mr fingers this movie aint dull thats for sure!! awesome movie
shareI definitely think Julian was gay. He talks about feeling like he's accomplished something when he gets women off, but he talks with Michelle about not feeling anything himself. Perhaps he rejects the gay lifestyle of meaningless sex, but he does not enjoy being with women. Like Michelle says, he
'goes to work' when they start making love.
I agree with some of the other posters in that Julian only seems willing to go gay if he's hard up for cash or desperate. Ultimately, though, sex is just a job to him, a means to an end. I doubt he's ever gotten any pleasure out of it from anyone, male or female--he stays too detached. It's probably the best attitude to have in his line of work. However, he did seem to genuinely care about Michelle, and I think he could've overcome this issue over time with her.
As for the remark about women not coming up to his apartment, I immediately thought of the scene from LA Confidential where Lynn took Bud White to what was obviously her private bedroom, the one she actually slept in on nights when she was alone. That was *her* space, her sanctuary. She never brought clients there. I think his apartment was the same for him. Again, it was about detaching himself from his work.
I'm somewhat disappointed Schrader said that about "The Walker," because it's cheating in a way. I wouldn't have been as interested in the film --and I'd guess others wouldn't either-- if I had known he was a gay hustler.
Julian's --apparent-- hetro persona was key to the film's success on several levels and to say he wasn't, ex-post, is dishonest.
If the Michelle character didn't assume--if not know--that he was straight, it would have made the already questionable script absurd.
<i>I agree with some of the other posters in that Julian only seems willing to go gay if he's hard up for cash or desperate. Ultimately, though, sex is just a job to him, a means to an end. I doubt he's ever gotten any pleasure out of it from anyone, male or female--he stays too detached. It's probably the best attitude to have in his line of work. However, he did seem to genuinely care about Michelle, and I think he could've overcome this issue over time with her.
As for the remark about women not coming up to his apartment, I immediately thought of the scene from LA Confidential where Lynn took Bud White to what was obviously her private bedroom, the one she actually slept in on nights when she was alone. That was *her* space, her sanctuary. She never brought clients there. I think his apartment was the same for him. Again, it was about detaching himself from his work. </i>
I agree completely with this post. Couldn't have said it better myself. He is not gay but has and occasionally still does have gay sex for money. Sex is his job, and he may not have ever even had a girlfriend/lover until Michelle. Women don't come to his apartment because he doesn't work there, didn't mean that men came there.
Andreasliljander:
The same thought occurred to me: that Julian is bi-sexual. However, I think Julian's sexuality is not the issue, it is the fact that for him sex, be it with a man/woman/S & M, is a means to an end: money(consumerism). He is at the beginning of the film, a hustler. Julian's story is typical of some people, I would surmise, who drift into prostitution as a lifestyle choice because of the quick money on offer and who have little moral compunction about this. (I would assume though a vast majority of prostitutes are forced into it due to drug addictions/poverty etc, but a minority of men/women choose to go into the profession to 'use' their looks targeting more well-to-do clients. There is a distinction between Julian and those prostitutes who have no choice).
As I write this, it occurred to me that Joe Buck, a more simple figure in 'Midnight Cowboy', precisely locates to New York in order to earn a living - naively - as a male escort for older/richer women. But in that film, he has to resort to doing gay acts for money (the scene with the young student) and other incidents (the evangelical 'I'm going to ride you ragged', the gay businessman he robs) suggest that he would have resorted to doing this work to survive. 'American Gigolo' is about consumerism, the ultimate act is selling your own body; Julian is able to push aside moral scruples which most people could not do; but for him, it is a job. There is a scene where Julian is questioned by Det Sunday about his lifestyle, but Julian counters the policeman's jibes by suggesting a sense of superiority (lack of hang-ups). Schrader's film is like a morality tale with Julian Kay, a Dorian Grey type figure corrupted by his own decadence.
I think it's too simple to make value judgements about Julian's sexuality; the film is about how people use each other (Julian uses Anne & Leon, they in turn use him, even Det.Sunday pumps him for information, Stratton uses a DA to force Julian's arrest, Rheiman uses others for his kinky sex games, even the worlds of business & finance do not escape Schrader's gaze) and the ruthlessness of this world when a person is no longer of use: (the running gag about the visiting Swedish woman, never seen, and how Anne is more indignant about Julie failing to turn up (she was left alone at the airport!) than the fact Julian is being chased by the police).
As for his apartment, I think Julian tried to keep his private & public worlds detached, but the film is also about a moral blurring of values and how the two worlds Julian has tried to keep apart finally intrude upon one another.
nqure,
You wrote "However, I think Julian's sexuality is not the issue"
I couldn't agree more.
As well as the 'job' being a means to an end.. yes, it's a consumerist lifestyle but I feel it's not just 100% cold, surface consumption, I think there is an element of him wanting to be a self-created creature, it's largely down to lifestyle, yes, but he seems to want some kind of civilised lifestyle, too (separating his domain, his apartment, with what he does for money... Michelle's comment 'I thought you'd have thick red carpet' etc).
If I recall correctly, in Schrader on Schrader, PS talks about Julian being distanced from human emotion. That he is able to do that by assuming a 'servant' role - ie he 'serves' women and by doing so assumes a distance and a 'being above it' kind of attitude.
This comes to hit him in the face of course, as Leon despises this about him and uses it for his own ends and for pure malice. Alongside the growing fondness for Michelle. I mean he responds to her out of kindness, he maybe was a little touched by her vulnerability and loneliness and the fact that she went to great efforts to seek him out.
At the end, Julian accepts the gift of Michelle's love and by doing so has to swallow his ego..as he doesn't really deserve this gift.. thereby coming down from his 'above it all' attitude.
The film is not about the chracter's sexual orientation or behaviour, it's about the inner journey he makes. The 'job' of gigolo is just a metaphor (perfectly matching as PS rightly says) for his 'inability to express love'.
Whether he has a long term relationship with Michelle, we don't know, it's clearly a significant relationship in his life. Whether he has the urge to also have physical relationships with men - again, we don't know, but for me it doesn't matter.
nvalentino,
Enjoyed reading your subtle response, especially your reference to Schrader on Schrader and the writer/director talking about his work and surely this informs us, the audience, about Schrader's intentions.
I think you're right about the film being more about Julian's 'inner journey' as opposed to all this surmising about his sexuality. Schrader is an intelligent writer/director, I would assume his work operates at a more subtle level than that.
Interesting point about Julian's self-created personality which hints at an intriguing backstory. How did Julian become a gigolo? That seems a lot more interesting than wondering whether he is gay etc.
Julian doesn't commit to anybody: not to Anne, his employer (and former lover perhaps) as he works independently (for Leon); to his clients (lonely unfulfilled women) whom you rightly state he acts as a servant and from whom he detaches himself; nor does he have a regular girlfriend/boyfriend(the inability to love). He thinks he is self-sufficient, above it all (cool) but this hauteur is gradually broken down (after he is set up by Leon) when he comes under suspicion and learns that he cannot rely on anybody apart from Michelle (her emotional commitment to him). So Julian moves from self-love and vanity (narcissism) towards a more emotional, trusting relationship. His freedom relies/depends on Michelle preparing to lie for him.
One thing I found interesting is how directors use clothing as a visual prompt. In 'The Conformist', Clerici's wife, Guilia, wears black & white dresses throughout the film because she is gauche in contrast to his complex personality, but at the end of the film, she wears a dress that is multi-coloured indicating that she sees the world with a new perception. Similarly, I liked how Julian, with his array of handsome clothing, meets Anne dressed in just a white shirt and tatty jeans when he is on the run.
I completely agree with your last point; all this conjecture doesn't matter. Sex is a smokescreen for a story that is more of an emotional journey.
if he was gay surely they would have had a male character in the film who was "friends" with julian ???
"He's in town with a few days to kill"
What about some of the non-verbal cues? Like when he's walking down the street and goes into the record store. THe way he walks is somewhat gay. How he browses through the records is feminine. His clothing in the record scene is somewhat gay. The high, tightly rolled sleeves. I don;t know - the outfit, while well-tailored, seemed a little gat to me. Even when he ordered breakfast, the way he said "croissant" just seemed gay.
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See, Mark, I've always thought there was a fine line between cocky and feminine. It's great to be self-assured, but if you go too far over the top in the way you carry yourself, you can cross the line from a cocksure guy into flamboyance.
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Good analysis, Mark.
shareThere's this guy at my work who reminds me of Julian in this film. He's about 23 and he is so cocky and self assured, he's also immaculately well groomed and well dressed. To the point that the women at work comment that he has more shoes then they do. He's always talking about how much he works out and goes for daily runs. He eats the same damn chicken breast and broccoli everyday for lunch. Everyone is convinced he is gay, the women say no straight heterosexual man is as love with himself as this guy is. and I always think about this movie that is now like 34 years old going on 35 that came out over a decade before this dude was born.
In this movie I couldn't tell if Julian was straight up gay or if he only did gay stuff as a last desparate attempt to get money or save his life. Either way he reminded me of the younger guy I work with and that guy reminds me of Julian. Both in love with themselves, cocky as hell, arrogant well groomed immaculate guys that have that gay air about them as well. Most women don't deal with men that are so perfectly well groomed and immaculate looking, it's more weird I would think to be with a man that is more of a diva then you, so the rationale is that these dudes have to be closet homosexuals.
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I got the impression Julian was gay for pay. I heard a lot of male porn stars are gay for pay. Are there really many gigolos? It would be an easier profession now than in 1980 because of drugs like Viagra.
shareNah, I don't think so. I think Julian probably knows some people in the gay community perhaps, doesn't make him gay, as to know if he ever did a male on male "trick", who knows. I'm sure someone will respond with "well he must have been, you are being hateful/anti-gay etc"
Y'know, I could eat a peach for hours
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