MovieChat Forums > 'Breaker' Morant (1980) Discussion > Difference between Morant etc and Nazi s...

Difference between Morant etc and Nazi soldiers?


Morant and his unit, it could be argued, were little different from Nazi soldiers on the Eastern Front. They murdered prisoners, burned farms/ villages etc in response to the actions of partisans (or 'terrorists'). Even when they sent them on as POW's they ended up in concentration camps where thousands died of starvation. The parallels between the Boers and Soviet partisans (both fighting invaders from their homes, blowing up trains, not taking prisoners themselves) are remarkable. The response is also similar - during the 2nd Boer War the British took to strapping Boer civilians, including women and children, to the front of trains to protect the trains from partisan ("terrorist") attack. These were desperate measures, that also worked.

To me this film illustrates that soldiers of all nations when put under intense pressure and in constant fear for their lives will do anything that it takes to subdue the enemy. The longer the war goes on the worse it gets, the more de-humanised the enemy becomes. I'm not saying that a 'clean war' is possible, rather that all wars end up dirty. The best thing you can do is try to avoid war in the first place, and if that fails then God help everyone.

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I am not familiar enough with the deeds of German soldiers on the Eastern Front so cannot say.
But I whole-heartedly agree that "all wars end up dirty. The best thing you can do is try to avoid war in the first place, and if that fails then God help everyone."

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pr, the way the guy below you quotes your last sentence, it makes you sound like one of those old timey leaders who gets quoted all the time.




I asked the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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[deleted]

Oh hell yes. The gray uniform with the black collar, and the stripe down the pants. Those Nazis knew how to work it. No fashion police necessary in Germany for those 12 years!




I asked the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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[deleted]

War crimes occurred no matter what kind of uniform you are wearing, what kind of political system you belong to, and the time period that the war had occurred. They occurred long before Nazi Germany came into existence and have continued to occur long after that regime was smash. Yes, the German Army did have very beautiful uniforms particulary their officers. I also love their unique ribbon bars which totally different from those ribbon bars of most armies and navies during the 19th and 20th centuaries. It is too bad that the present Germany Army doesn't use that ribbon bar style anymore nor they use the grey uniform anymore although that uniform did not blend in well with the green rural landscape; however, it did blend in with the grey urban ciy area like in the movie Enemy at the Gates.

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[deleted]

You have to understand how the Boers and their tactics were looked at by the British. To the British, the Boers just weren't playing by the normal "Victorian" rules of war (i.e. both sides maneuver their larges forces to a point of their choosing and have large decisive battles to decide the ultimate outcome of the conflict) and as such they did not deserve fair treatment. The British basically operated under the principle that if they (the Boers) won't fight by the rules, we won't either.

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"The British basically operated under the principle that if they (the Boers) won't fight by the rules, we won't either." - Dennis_Cooper on Tue Nov 9 2010
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Yes, exactly like the Nazis, exactly like the Eastern Front in WW2 as I said in my earlier post. Stalin refused to sign the Geneva Convention, unlike the Germans. On the Western Front prisoners of the Germans were treated quite well - even often receiving good medical treatment, on the Eastern Front fighting an enemy that did not recognise 'the rules of war' the gloves were off and both sides were as bad as each other. Both sides used prisoners for hard labour, many died of starvation and mis-treatment. 90,000 Germans, Rumanians, and Italians of the Axis powers surrendered to the Russians after Stalingrad - only 5,000 were alive when they were repatriated in 1955.

Although there may have been some crueller troops on the German side (AND the Soviet Russian side) on the Eastern Front in WW2 I don't see any difference at all between Breaker Morant and Nazi soldiers operating there in the main. You may disagree, but I think you would be naiive to do so.

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Your point applies in some situations but is certainly not universal. In WWII in the Pacific, British and US POW's were treated far more harshly by the Japanese than Japanese POW's were.

And the failure of all moral equivalence arguments such as yours is someone has to be the first to start the bad (or worse) behavior and whichever side does will always be in the worse position morally. So if the Boers were the first to mutilate and execute prisoners they would always be worse (morally speaking) than the British even though the Brits began executing prisoners in kind.

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Certainly the British did some horrible things during the Boer War. There is no doubt that crimes committed by the British military were not limited to isolated criminals acting against orders / policy.

However, when looking specifically at the act for which Morant was convicted (as depicted in the movie), I think that there is a significant difference between executing people actively passing tactical information to the enemy and armed partisans caught wearing articles of British uniforms (which by the letter of military law takes those individuals into the realm of espionage) and executing numbers of randomly selected civilians as retaliation for partisan acts. When the punishment is only meted out to the individuals who are caught committing the crime in question, you're in a more defensible position. (That's before we bring up the full blown genocide carried out as a matter of policy by some Nazi units.)

Obviously, it would be better to take those prisoners through a legal court system (even if the ultimate outcome is the same). Given the explicit policy on summary execution, however, Morant was no more guilty than much of the command chain above him. If you're going to convict Morant (and I'm not saying that is wrong in and of itself; though still not really the same crime as killing random civilians), then those convictions should also go up the chain to the source of the order to perform summary executions.

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George Orwell wrote of Boers throwing African babies into the air and catching them on their bayonets...for fun. War, anyone?

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Morant and his unit, it could be argued, were little different from Nazi soldiers on the Eastern Front. They murdered prisoners, burned farms/ villages etc in response to the actions of partisans (or 'terrorists').


The soldiers on the Eastern Front would have received a commendation from their own side for their actions, rather than a death sentence. The Nazis believed it was wise to encourage zeal.

All armies are similar, but they are not all identical.

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