MovieChat Forums > Manhattan (1979) Discussion > Woody Allen's Sick Sexual Fantasies

Woody Allen's Sick Sexual Fantasies

posted 11 years ago by cooler56
11 replies | jump to latest

This seems to be a recurring theme from his earlier movies but I feel it should be reiterated:

They are set in some bizzaro world where Woody Allen is somehow a sex god and damaged women seem to flock to him. In EVERY movie the women are screwed up. I mean not in a sympathetic way, but in a humiliating way. There are stereotypical "bad boy" macho jerks who mistreat women and Allen is portrayed as the opposite of that.

Not in a good way. But is it intentional? He is a passive-aggressive neurotic dweeb that gets off on belittling women. Let's face it, if it weren't for his money and fame, not one woman would even notice him. I get that he's supposed to be some sort of "average guy" but his severe issues with women are far from normal.

He talks about the "decay" of integrity in people... He never wants to cheat on a woman or harm others or compromise on his ideals, etc.

So we are led to think that his relationship with Tracy is "normal" and age shouldn't matter. Considering what other people are doing to each other, his love for Tracy is "innocent." And the gratuitous shots of them kissing reinforces that.

Fine, I get it, age shouldn't be an issue, etc. But He still comes across as a stereotypical "pervy old man."

Things are fine with Tracy? I think not. He takes her for a ride and then dumps her because it "wouldn't work out" which is supposed to mirror Mary and Yale's affair. And then in a sudden burst, he runs after Tracy. She, in a matured manner, tells him to wait it out because time shouldn't matter if it's love.

It's clear that Allen "settles" for Tracy. Why? Because she is not as "damaged" or has that much "baggage" in comparison to Mary. Basically this is why he likes young women- not so much for their age but because he can "mold" them to not have any unwanted issues like the other women.

And it is with that, I think Woody Allen has some sick issues with women which he creates movies to analyze them. We laugh and quote them, but guess what- this is what he thinks of women! Disgusting.

Look at Woody Allen's track record- 3 marriages, 2 partners, god knows how many relationships and affairs. Guess what the common factor is? HIM.

[–] The_White_Hotel 11 years ago

So you don't like his movies. That's fine. But it sounds like what it really comes down to is that you don't like him. So you project these "meanings" onto him that you have inferred from his movies, particularly this one. The problem is that these meanings have been created by you and seem to come from an interpretation of this film that is, if not unique to yourself, then highly unusual. Do you think that Allen presents his character in this film as someone to be admired? Someone of moral superiority? That appears to be what you are implying, and you follow the implication by saying that you see through that facade to the reality that he is not a nice guy.

Isaac is not supposed to be a nice guy, he is supposed to be someone who believes himself to be a nice guy, to be upstanding and morally consistent, and yet someone whose actions belie these supposed personality traits. This is hinted at right at the beginning of the film, when Isaac (apparently for the hundredth time) poses the hypothetical ethical question of whether any of his friends would have the courage to dive into the freezing waters of a river in order to rescue someone who is drowning. That is one of his measures of moral courage. Crucially, however, he excuses himself from this test by declaring "I of course can't swim so I never have to face it". Other people's actions are evidence for him of their moral ineptitude. His own do not have to conform to the same standards as a result of one excuse or another. The culmination of this double standard comes at the end of the movie when, having been dumped by Mary, he convinces himself that it is okay to go chasing after Tracy because her face is an artwork on a par with Cezanne, Louis Armstrong, Swedish movies and whatever else he lists as reasons to carry on existing. So goes chasing after her with an ill-thought out, ill-advised plan that will surely cause more pain to one or both of them, and all because his ego is damaged. Allen is clearly not saying that Isaac's actions are representative of desirable behaviour. In fact, it seems to me that he is saying that Isaac is a deluded, self-aggrandising, two-faced hypocrite who constantly tries to justify his moral transgressions through a guise of supposed superiority despite being completely blind to the many contradictions that are raised between his outlook and his actions. That is the intentional subtext that you have gone to great lengths to decode and claim as some insight into the true character of Woody Allen. So it seems to me that you have correctly identified the fact that Isaac is not a good guy, yet somehow you have come to the conclusion that this is in spite of the characteristics he displays in this film and not because of them.

I thought that was a bit weird, but it pales in comparison to your final paragraph:

Look at Woody Allen's track record- 3 marriages, 2 partners, god knows how many relationships and affairs. Guess what the common factor is? HIM.

Let's look at everyone's track record, mine, yours, your neighbour's, and see if we can identify the common factor. Oh yes, it's always the person having the relationships. It's a completely meaningless statement. Of course the common factor is him. The guy is 78 years old. He's had some relationships. In all of them he was one of the two partners. What exactly is this supposed to say about Allen? My contention is that it says very little about him, but the fact that you cite it as, supposedly, some sort of damning indictment of him takes me back to my first point; you don't like him (which is fine) and you're trying to justify this dislike by projecting a negative meaning onto a misinterpretation of some source material, in the latter case the source material being that Allen has had some relationships about which you know very little (in fact some of which you don't know happened at all "god knows how many"), and it's always been him who has had them. It's not a particularly convincing argument, if you don't mind me saying so.

Reality is the new fiction they say, truth is truer these days, truth is man-made

[–] cooler56 11 years ago

It seems you didn't read my post properly. I don't have a problem with the film in general, but I am opening a meta-discussion about a particular theme found in most, if not all of Woody Allen's films: Women.

I do believe that this film is a reflection of Woody Allen's life and personality (and there are texts that can back me up on this.) Yes, I did point out that Isaac is a hypocrite and I am sure that Woody Allen created him that way. But I am sure he is as much of one too.

The point is, his films are painted with fine strokes of misogyny, and it is only on closer viewing do you actually see it. Yes, they are witty romantic comedies on the surface, but there is a lot of troubling issues that lurk underneath. And saying that "well Allen's character is a douchebag too so it's fair!" is not an excuse for Allen's portrayal of women in his films. In fact, I think that it reveals an even more horrifying side in his mind.

And is his love life relevant? Yes! He is an artist who is able to reinterpret his life into another form for all of us to see. When you read about his life and his relationships, you can piece things together and see how a film of his may or may not reflect this, explicitly or implicitly. Not everything is going to be in plain sight for you to see.

And I believe that Isaac is not supposed to be unlikeable or terrible. Quite the opposite, he is very relatable and very funny and he has done things in his life we are quick to judge when we have our own sins. However, it doesn't brush off his (Isaac's) issues with women and romance (which he packages in a humorous way), as I stated above. And that is where this film gets dark, even if we never see or hear it.

[–] The_White_Hotel 11 years ago

I still don't see what you are describing as "sick sexual fantasies". The fact that women find him attractive? Women in real life find him attractive (not just in what you describe as a bizarro world), and you might well say that is due to him being rich and famous, but that hardly says anything positive about your own attitude to women. Do you believe most women to be that shallow?

Allen makes (primarily) relationship based rom-coms and dramas. He's made more than forty movies, during which he has represented women in numerous ways (as a very small example, Annie Hall is a completely different character to either Mary or Tracy in this picture). He's also been regularly commended for his catalogue of vibrant, well-written female roles. Are you able to provide any other examples from any of his other films (and btw, I'm not sold on your examples from this one) that support your argument that Allen is a terrible ("sick", even) misogynist whose films reveal "troubling issues"?

Reality is the new fiction they say, truth is truer these days, truth is man-made

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] cheeso65 11 years ago

Look at Woody Allen's track record...Guess what the common factor is? HIM.

If you're looking at HIS track record, the common factor would have to be HIM.

[–] nocomputer1962 10 years ago

Cooler's suggestion that Woody Allen is a narcissist because he is a factor in all of his relationships may be the dumbest thing I've ever read on imdb.

[–] tyrexden 10 years ago

I agree with everything you said, except for you labeling it as 'sick'. That is subjective. Woody HAS, i'm sure, been with crazy women. He's not just pulling that plot point out of thin air.

And it IS true that a younger woman would be easier to mold than someone with a ton of baggage already. Is it manipulative to court a young naive person? Probably, but thats a different discussion.

[–] jellyree 10 years ago

Goodbye.

[–] Queenbee60 10 years ago

I agree with you! Every film is like a new chapter in his therapy. Except that he's going in circles.

[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

i don't think he's a sex god, women frequently dump him,a s Diane keaton does in this one for instance. but i think at the end he realises he does love Tracy, that's why he goes rushing to find her. But she sensibly decides to go to England anyway. Whether their relationship lasted we don't know.

true most of the women in many of his films are screwed up, but so are most of the men.

his relationship with Tracy isn't innocent, but relationhips between older men and younger women are hardly unusual.

As for his record with women - it doesn't seem to be any worse than most other people in showbusiness. many have had more marriages than him. And his current relationship has lasted over twenty years now,