Is it good ?


How strange it is to read so many positive comments about BIRTH OF THE BEATLES almost 30 years on. I played Stu Sutcliffe in the film. It was kind of put together very quickly. Dick Clark ( who none of us knew in the UK as he is only a star in the USA) had just had a success with John Carpenter’s film about Elvis and a follow up film about the Beatles was the obvious choice.

The rumour on the film set was that the writers wrote the screenplay in Dick Clark’s house in Malibu without ever coming to the UK. Even as we shot the film we were all aware of the inaccuracies. All of us actors had all grown up with the Beatles and knew their story well especially John Altman who was a huge fan and went to Henley to meet George Harrison.

Pete Best who we all liked very much was credited as the historic adviser but in reality he was ignored most of the time by the director.

I especially hated the addition of a grave stone with the words Eleanor Rigby written on it. It never existed. It was “an in joke”. As the filming went on we would make up these terribly lines as a joke trying to top each other with the most ridiculous such as The Beatles going for a walk in Penny Lane –
John: “What great name I think we should write a song about it”
Paul: “Yeh, and one about Strawberry Fields”
Ringo: “ Yeh and I think I will write one about that Octopus’s Garden in Lime Street”.

We also had problems with many of the lines we had to say, especially the lack of swear words. As Pete told us for The Beatles, like almost all young people from the 1960’s onwards, swearing was part of their every day vocabulary. Because the film was made for TV in the USA and cinema distribution in the rest of the world the swearing had to go. This was the 1970’s and before the rise of HBO so most US TV the content was sanitised and somewhat lame. From time to time we made the dialogue more authentic but we then had to re-shoot and go back to the script.

In fact we even had to change our accents. An excellent actor called Michael Angelis was employed as our dialogue coach. He did his job so well that when the film was edited and shown to executives in America they could not understand what we were saying. I remember receiving a telex telling me that I would have to post synch my dialogue in a recording studio “to make it more English than Liverpudlian “.

As time goes by I am amazed when somebody I meet says how much they liked it. At the time it was not well received at all, especially by many of us who took part. I hated it. I suppose I should watch it again as I have not seen it since it was first released, I might like it this time....if only I could find a copy!

reply

Hey david-423, I have a pretty decent copy without commercials for free if you're interested. Do you have an address I can send it to?

reply

I am 23 and i love this film. I first saw it on a vhs my dad had tapped of the tv and i thought the acting was brill as was the casting. My dad grew up loving the beatles and i grew up with the music constantly playing on his old record deck so i grew to love the beatles also. i know alot of this film was made up but i still found it interesting. Tho david your scene of stu dying still upsets me to this day and by far the cutest cast member lol,
All i can say is Well done david

reply

Thank you.

I now have a copy so I have seen it after so many years.

As we made the film there was always the worry of legal action from the Beatles. It was the first drama film to be made about them in the UK. They could not stop it's production, as " famous" people their story is in the public domain but the producers were always worried. Some of the things Pete Best told us would have made for a much better film but they would never have had the OK from the lawyers.

Talking to him, for me was the best( pun intended) thing about the production.

reply

Hello David,

Many thanks for your input, facinating to read the behind the scenes story, I was wondering if you have got your copy of the film?, I also have a good quality copy of the film on DVD, should you wish for me to send you it email me.
All the best to you

Glenn

reply

Hi David, knowing a little bit more about this film on your words is simply priceless.

Today on VH1 (I think) aired a TV film titled "The John Lennon Story" (or some like that) portraying The Beatles early years (Hamburg, Liverpool, The Cavern, etc) with focus on John´s life. I was amazed about how bad this movie was. No accuracy or care for detail at all. everybodi miscasted.
In "The Birth of the Beatles" the band was called "Rain" if I remember well, and the covers were very close to the originals. In this case, as well as "Backbeat" (a good film... showing John singing "Long Tall Sally" God!) the covers are poor, not even close to the excitement of Beatles music and what that means. Cold at the best of the cases.
There´s a great photo-montage sequence in "The Birth...", with "P.S I Love You" backing the whole footage. The Astrid Kirchner´s B&W photo style is perfectly captured (her photos are the best early Beatles visual document) and this sequence results highly emotive for any Beatle fan. The same goes when the Beatles are in this session -with no uniforms and Pete faking the bass playing- just unforgettable. All of you guys were perfectly casted and the looks were superb; the leather jackets and silver boots (As far as I remember never seen on any other film, mean the boots)and the chemistry -specially remember the guy who played Lennon (Stephen MacKenna) playing whith a comb as a sort of Hitler´s mustache, as well as the Hamburg scene (with all the sordid matters like the prostitutes, the Preludin, the boost, etc)did really a good job.
Despite all the factual errors and other problems, I think this movie stills the best cinematic approach to the early Beatles.

Where are we going fellas?
To the top, Johnny!
Where´s that?
To the toppermost of the poppermost!

Cheers.


reply

[deleted]


dear comodinmartin,


Yes all the photos were taken by Bob Penn. He was one of the best working in films at the time. He was kind of slumming it with us. He worked on big films like the Bond's, Superman, Flash Gordon etc.

The intersting thing about making the film was that we could not use most of the Beatles music, those songs written by them and owned by Northern Songs. Carl Davis did the soundtrack background music. He would later work with Paul McCartney on some classical music work. I asked him if he ever told him about Birth Of The Beatles. He said he thought it best he did not. As a producer I went to Handmade Films, George Harrisons company with a project. They really liked my project but then the staff found out I had been in Birth Of The Beatles and the project was dropped. They never explained why !!

reply

I was in the band "Rain" that recorded the soundtrack and I sang the vocal parts for John Lennon, George Harrison and Stu Sutcliff. The song backing the photo montage is actually "Ask Me Why" which, I agree, was a highlight of the film.I have to say that it is nice to see that this movie has not been forgotten after almost 30 years!Thanks for all the nice comments. Cheers, Ed Lineberry

reply

i have seen Rain twice this year. I really enjoyed this show. My kids, 14, 11 and 10 liked it as well.

reply

Dear Glen,

I have one now. Maybe I should release it on DVD through my company guerilla films.

reply

[deleted]


Don't worry. I did not think I was that good myself. I did not get on with the director and it shows. I was the only actor he did not cast. I was on board before he was and it caused him problems.

reply

[deleted]

I first became a Beatles fan in 1995 (because of the Anthology). I've been a huge fan ever since.

I first saw this movie about a year after I became a Beatles fan and I still love it to this day! I taped it the night I first saw it on, but a few years later I taped over it (argh!).
I was especially impressed by Stephen MacKenna and Rod Culbertson, who were such a good John and Paul!

David, I also remember your death scene creeped me out immensely!
All in all I thought it was a great tribute to The Beatles, even though there were several historical mistakes.

-Amanda

"She will remember your heart when men are fairy tales in storybooks written by rabbits"

reply

I first saw this film as a 12 year old in 1979 at the cinemas while staying with relatives in Sydney (I am a Melbourne boy through and through).

I was already a Beatles fan to an extent, but this film sparked a fascination for the Beatles that has not died since.

I haven't seen it since (save for some clips on YouTube), but I can remember the gritty reality the film portrayed.

About a year after that, I read the book "The Man Who gave the Beatles Away" by Alan Williams and it seemed to reconfirm much of what had taken place in the film.

The factual errors don't concern me much - it is the spirit of the film that is important...and this film very much captures the spirit of The Beatles. The music by Rain was sensational.

I wish I had an unedited copy on DVD.

reply

I was in this film as well. I played Klaus Voorman in the infamous sheep scene. It was really cold on set and the director was being a real jerk about keeping us without clothes for hours on end. He wouldn't even let us put a robe on in between takes. You have any clue what 25 degree weather does to your manhood? In the end, I still have women snicker at me when they recognize me in pubs, movie theaters and the grocery store.

Hi Freeze....I'm Batman.

reply

I was 14 years old when this came out and never really payed much attention to The Beatles music before this TV movie, nor the solo Beatles' careers in the 70's up to that point.

This movie had the same impact on me as seeing The Beatles perform "I Want To Hold Your Hand" had on US audiences in 1964. In fact, it was hearing ".....Hand" that prompted me to buy my first Beatles album. I was hooked, and a hardcore Beatlemaniac from that point on.

Amazing how that song affected me 15 years after it's initial release in much the same way it impacted people my age a teenage generation earlier.

I have not seen this since it's original airing, but I don't think I really WANT to see it again, as perhaps my distant memory of that life altering experience has been romanticized in my mind, and as they say...you can't go back.



reply

You know..I never realized until someone mentioned it here.. that this was the movie that started my Beatle obsession. Always aware and enjoyed (how could you not??!!) the Beatles music.. but this film.. factual inaccuracies aside.. REALLY got my interest going to learn as much about them as possible. I am now a walking encyclopedia of them, and still a constant sponge for learning more. I could sit for hours talking about them, and still have the discussion reserved to..say, one year of they're career. And I never realized it all came from this movie.
I agree with other posters, that, despite the flaws.. I've never seen a film that captures the spirit and energy of the time.
And David.. I also agree, that despite your own misgivings, that the scene where you drop was very effective and creepy. Something about what you do when you're getting the pains throughout, but then.. when it does come, when the pain hits, and then you bring your head back up, roll your eyes back.. and fall.. gives one chills. It really is a credit to you as an actor, especially given your misgivings about the project... that a scene which takes place in such a short space of time could be so powerful that it is one of the most memorable experiences of watching the film. You also made Stu a very likable, yet sympathetic and believable character. I think you did fine. Just sayin'.

The more complex the mind.. the greater the need for the simplicity of play"

reply

I saw this film when it came on US TV back in 1979. At that point I was already a big Beatles fan and had heard all their albums and raed multiple books about them. Therefore I HATED the movie. David was right--it's pretty terrible. The acting and music were OK but the script was full of innaccurate information and outright lies. The "in" jokes were more annoying than cute or funny and I was basically disgusted with the whole thing. I watched it all the way through and have zero desire to sit through it again. I'd like to thank David with sharing his thoughts about the movie with us.

reply


I remember first seeing 'Birth Of The Beatles' when they showed it on BBC1 in the mid 1990's I was (and still very much am) obsessed with The Beatles and this was a very accurate portrayal of the band themselves. I enjoyed your portrayal of Sutcliffe especially. Being a Dick Clark production and since Dick never managed to get The Beatles on his show 'American Bandstand' and since he apparently didn't think much of their music personally one can see why he never bothered to get the story right. Despite what you say about the director and production ignoring Pete's input the film is pretty biased towards him, which is probably why The Beatles themselves tried to stop the output.

I think you can probably put Handmade's dismissal of you down to George's intense dislike of anybody dramatizing the early years of The Beatles. I heard he walked out of a showing of 'Backbeat' after five minutes. Paul also got riled up about John singing 'Long Tall Sally' in 'Backbeat' I can only imagine how he viewed 'Birth Of The Beatles' with it's numerous errors.

I myself am in the process of writing a Beatles movie, trying to get it factually correct by pouring through numerous books on the boys and statements from them is a labour of love.

I wonder David, do you still see any of the cast? Stephen MacKenna, Rod Culbertson, John Altman & Ryan Michael?



reply

I might like it a lot better if I hadn't seen "Backbeat" and "Nowhere Boy" first.

...And I really, really hate to have to say this to David, but: Dude, your portrayal of Stu Sutcliffe was okay, perfectly competent especially given the weak script and "made for TV" production values y'all had to put up with, but it can't even begin to match the glamor that Stephen Dorff brought to the role of Stu in "Backbeat."

Which isn't a fair comparison, of course; "Backbeat" is more Stuart's story than anybody else's (except John's, sort of. All Beatles stories have to revolve around John Lennon for a considerable portion, or they're not Beatles stories.) It's only natural that the makers of "Backbeat" would put a lot more effort into having Stu come across as an interesting character in his own right.

I do think it would make a better story to show Stuart dying in Astrid's arms in the ambulance, the way it allegedly really happened, but I don't know of any movie or play that's done that.

I didn't mind the Rigby tombstone. You can hardly read the first name, and Rigby is a surname that appears on John Lennon's family tree. It would be perfectly plausible that there might have been a Rigby tombstone in Liverpool. [EDITED TO ADD: There was. Paul doesn't remember seeing it, but says he might have remembered it subconsciously before writing the song.] The other song references were pretty ham-handed, but not so much "Penny Lane" because it was a very important street for the Fab Four growing up.

The only actor who I thought turned in an absolutely top-notch performance was Stephen MacKenna, but he did look a bit too old for the part.

The weakest performance among the principals was Brian Jameson as that other Brian. For crying out loud, just because a character is gay doesn't mean you have to portray him as moistly effiminate, cringingly sensitive, and non-assertive to the point nearly of cowardice. Brian Epstein was none of those things.

Second weakest performance was John Altman as George Harrison. He just did not look or act much like my idea of George. (Please note: I never blame the actor for these things. It's the director's job to bring out the best performances he can get, and the director's failure if he doesn't get them.)

The one historical inaccuracy that really got my goat was the firing of Pete Best. It's clear to me that either George Martin or Brian Epstein thought up the idea first, and then the other three Beatles went along with it, and it had more to do with Ringo being a better drummer than Pete Best will ever admit. Brian Epstein was involved in that decision up to his neck, too, even if George Martin suggested it first.

But Pete Best was hired by the filmmakers as a consultant for BOTB, and Pete wants to get back at the band, so that's what they did.

The scene in which Ringo wins over the adamantly protesting fans probably didn't happen anything like that, but it's a pretty cool scene anyway. Otherwise, unfortunately, Ray Ashcroft doesn't look or act much more like Ringo than Altman acts like Harrison.

Another historical inaccuracy that really bothers me is the usual "Stu Sutcliffe couldn't play guitar" nonsense. He could, just not as well as the other three. ("Nowhere Boy" unfortunately perpetuates this myth.)

I disagree with those above bad-mouthing Rain. I thought they did just fine. The music and Stephen MacKenna are the main things that make this flick worth seeing about, oh, one and a half times.

In other words, I'm going to skip through a lot of the second viewing. 6 out of 10 is the best I can give it.

"I don't deduce, I observe."

reply

Thanks so much for this David - I loved this film when I first saw it on TV in the USA when I was a kid, but it then just....disappeared. Then bits of it turned up on YOuTube and then, a couple of weeks ago, I saw a friend of mine in a show at a pub theatre, and in the cast was Wendy Morgan, who played Cynthia Lennon. Two weeks later, they showed the film on the "True Entertainment" channel, the first time in over 30 years I've seen it on TV. Interestingly, it's the bowlderised US TV version, but there's now a full length cinema cut on YouTube, and even the aspect ratios are different, as well as the odd line of dialogue. I always thought it was a very brave, very candid film and brilliantly acted. Weird to look back now and see "Nasty" Nick from Eastenders playing George Harrison!

reply

"True Entertainment" channel in the UK just showed what I presume is the full-length version.

reply

Hi - weirdly, I caught the beginning of it last night. No, it's not the uncut version. You can tell by the opening credits - the uncut version uses "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean" rather than "She Loves You" and, when Paul notes George's bleeding fingers in the uncut version he says "You won't be able to scratch your arse" rather than "You won't be able to pick your nose".

Mind you, I still get a kick of seeing "Nasty" Nick Cotton as George Harrison.

reply

david be proud!

the finished product is fantastic


stephen mckenna who plays john lennon is almost uncanny and the chap who plays brian epstein is the heart of the movie

what a wonderful enjoyable picture

reply