MovieChat Forums > All That Jazz (1979) Discussion > Brilliant, disturbing film

Brilliant, disturbing film

posted 18 years ago by JimLoneWolf
24 replies | jump to latest

I'm not exactly sure why, perhaps because my father died in much the same manner as Fosse, but this film shook me and I was pretty deeply disturbed by the morbid nature of the final 45 minutes. I couldn't watch the heart operation scene, and I've handled every other bit of onscreen gore imaginable.

But what really got to me was the scathing, utterly unsentimental tone during those final dance numbers. I was somewhere between thinking "this is the most genius musical I've ever seen" and "this movie is **** and Bob Fosse is an a-hole without compassion".

Then I remembered it was HIS story, and I understood.

I really feel this film is an "anti-musical". It seems to despise "show business", particularly the artificiality of "musical theater", and it appears the film's intent was to show how inappropriate the musical is for capturing life's hardships. Fosse implies that musicals are emblematic of life's joy, but what about when life turns rotten? It becomes both grossly inappropriate and almost nightmarish, particularly when you have devoted your entire life to this field.

This film moved me deeply and made me think. To be honest, it also really ticked me off and made me feel angry and insulted, as if death was being trivialized for entertainment. But I didn't doubt for a second that this was Fosse's point, to throw the audience's sentimentality back in its face. He succeeded courageously. As hard as this film is to watch, it must have been even harder to MAKE!

A challenging film that never compromises its vision? Sounds like art to me.

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[–] Greenteeth 18 years ago

The gloss that showbiz is often given was tossed out the window for this movie. If it didn't have such a broad edge I probably wouldn't have liked it as much as I did. I can certainly understand how some might have a hard time watching it. I saw it in the theater when it first came out, and I still can't get the song "Who's Sorry Now?" out of my head.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] f-mattox 18 years ago

Dear Mr. JimLoneWolf, your first post was thoughtful and touching; but you really blew it with your whiney response to 'repeater'. Didn't you ever learn that the best way to get rid of a bully is to ignore him?

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[–] Greenteeth 18 years ago

If someone is bothering you, simply put them on "ignore."

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[–] Gheelnory 18 years ago

I think I have to count it as my favorite musical, too. The dance numbers are riveting in themselves, but the knowledge that Fosse was capable of dissecting his own self-destructiveness so unflinchingly is what makes me tear up everytime I watch. He was possibly the least narcissistic--and least self-delusional--artist that the theatre has ever produced.

[–] JimLoneWolf 18 years ago

You know, since I first started this thread, my opinion of this movie has been getting better and better. I liked it from the first moment I saw it, but after watching it two more times, I can honestly say it is unlike any other musical and as a result it has become my favorite musical (I don't like to think of The Wizard of Oz as a musical...its so much more than that).

I have to be honest, I rewound the final number about 10 times...thats how great I thought it was. Its just perfectly executed in every way, and so is the rest of the film.

I really think Bob Fosse's legendary career in theater has unfairly shortchanged his film legacy. The man made some truly amazing movies, and All That Jazz (for me) represents his finest and most courageous hour. In a decade filled with classics, All That Jazz fully deserves its inclusion among them.
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[–] Doom 18 years ago

If it gets under your skin, I think that's the intention. I personally love it, but can certainly see how it could bother some.

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Wait a minute... who am I here?

[–] JimLoneWolf 18 years ago

I don't particularly care for musicals either, mainly because so many of them (even some of the great ones) seem superficial. Not this film. This is the first musical I've seen that actually offered real truths (and brutal truths at that) about life.

And that final "Bye Bye Life" sequence is my favorite scene in any musical. Great music, great dancing, great themes. Glad to see you liked that scene as much as I did...it made the movie for me.
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[–] mpoconnor7 14 years ago

I agree; I don't care for musicals, but this movie had me hooked with the On Broadway sequence. Scheider was an underrated actor and this was the role of his career, and he hit it out of the park. I never thought he had the range to pull off a role of this kind, but the resemblance between Scheider and Fosse was uncanny. What I find fascinating about All That Jazz is that it's not really a musical, but it's more about the making of a musical, and it's existential and autobiographical about the life of Fosse and his various girlfriends, and it works on every level. It has great comic bits; my personal favorite is the Doctor who was giving Gideon the physical while the Doctor was hacking up a lung. The girl who played his daughter gave one of the finest child performances I have ever seen. It's quite unlike any movie I've ever seen, totally unique and original, and it has aged well I think, and it is one of my favorite movies.

[–] Leamas-2 18 years ago

I appreciate your comments on the film...I saw it first in 1980..in first release..and was very upset by it...at first I thought it mainly self-indulgent and narcicisitic.....and felt he could have cut half of the stuff...and made a good live Broadway stage musical....but I was 27 and working in the theatre myself..and personally very self-destructive....not unlike Fosse....(but without the fame and $$$$...just the cigarettes, booze and girls).....3 years later....at 30...and married with a child...I saw it again....on a double bill with Carnal Knowledge...in the Village in NYC....and (apart from it being a horribly depressing evening between the 2 films)....I saw what Fosse was doing...

His self-examination...self-satire....self-castigation in the film was fearless...and he could never have made a B'way show of it....that form can't hold it.....and I love B'way shows....but here was a guy who spent his entire B'way career trying to make B'way hold it's face to reality...in a very subtle way...and losing his life in the process....so the only place to show his view was on film....and he tried mightily to make B'way see his vision..

Fosse's career was marked by a lack of sentiment....from dancing in strip joints as a kid ..to the USO in WWII ...to being a low-paid hoofer...to doctoring dances by lesser talents...to choreographing dances for sentimental shows in which he cut across the sentiment...with style..with wit....and of course with sex....what we recall from Pajama Game and Damn Yankees is not the sappy stories and second rate scores...but his dances and staging....he DARED to try....then on to doing edgier shows like Redhead and and New Girl in Town....in which dances were cut because he was TOO edgy...but he kept trying to express his darker view....

He came into his own as a B'way director with Sweet Charity and Pippin..Chicago..then suddenly found his place as a film director.....Lenny...Cabaret....Star 80...and All That Jazz.....

But he never left the theatre......it was his idiom....and he tried to show that in All That Jazz.....B'way musicals were his life metaphor....and they were also his life.....he tried to express his life view in a "bastard form"....and got fame...applause...money...girls...and a wife and child..then more girls.....but no one saluted his view...his artistic skill yes...but not his vision...he saw himself as a limited hoofer who didn't "belong".....

The telling moment in All That Jazz....is after he has bolted his hospital room..and is roaming the hospital.....and is in the cellar somewhere...and he clutches his chest....and says to the heavens "What's the matter?....Don't you like musical comedy??".....

And the inside dope on the film....the reality vs f iction aspects are very interesting. In the film.....Fosse's doppleganger is Joe Gideon...he is directing a new musical called NY/LA......in 1975....when Fosse had his open heart surgery...he was directing Chicago...for B'way...also..in the film..he is editing The Stand-Up.....about a foul-mouthed comedian......in 1975...Fosse was editing Lenny..about Lenny Bruce....and there are many other overlapping factoids that meld the real life of Fosse with the film life of Joe Gideon....

With All That Jazz...Fosse basically told his life story....fearlessly....

The real...and tragic irony is....Fosse filmed his life and death in All That Jazz....but Fosse didn't die....even after a real life open heart surgery.....not until Sept. 1987.....in Washington, DC.....he was coming from a final dress of the new tour/revival of Sweet Charity...which he directed....and his long-estranged wife Gwen Verdon (the 1966 Charity) supervised...(they had remained close all the time)....they were going from the Washington National Theatre to the hotel...to change for opening night...and Fosse collapsed in her arms..on the street corner....and died on the spot of a heart attack...at 61..in the arms of the woman he seemed to really love....and coming from the theatre....which he seemed to love equally....

It seems as if both life and the theatre finally caught up with Fosse...suddenly and without sentiment.....as he would have preferred.

Thanks for listening.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Gheelnory 16 years ago

drsantanico wrote: I really and truly believe that Fosse was one of the most underrated directors of our time.
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I agree. I can't think of anyone who has come close to portraying, so convincingly, the tragic human propensity to make bad choices.

[–] stephan-128 16 years ago

good thread. good point about human propensity for bad choices.

[–] JimLoneWolf 17 years ago

These are great observations! I wish I had gotten back to this thread sooner. Thanks for your comments.

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[–] abs_is_back 15 years ago

This film makes you squirm... which is, I think, at the base of why some people hate it and can never figure out exactly why. When my husband suggests this film for an evening, I always have the same reaction - part of me wants to see it because it's brilliant, and part of me doesn't because I know I'm going to squirm.

Quite simply, it's real. I can't imagine being in a movie theater seeing this first run; what did one think as one walked out of the theater? I imagine the audience might be in shocked silence.

But you'd sure think about it for some time to come. If you can face yourself, you can acknowledge that it sometimes hits too close to home for comfort. Everybody has that self-destructive impulse in them somewhere, at some point in their lives. What is disturbing and brilliant at the same time is that Fosse could face that, acknowledge that, and then throw it up on the screen without apology: This is what I am. Yes, I know it's self-destructive. But it's my life and it's my death. I don't ask you to approve of it or even to accept it. But it's still my life, I own it, and my self-destructiveness doesn't keep me from wanting every minute that I have coming to me and then some.

Damn, that's brave.

[–] Isaac5855 17 years ago

I think your assessment of this film is dead on...Fosse was clearly in a very dark place when he developed this piece and the film is definitely an acquired taste..even for fans of musicals. I know a lot of people who like musicals but don't like this movie, so I know exactly where you're coming from.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] IMDBRefugee1SD (139) 8 years ago

Very interesting reaction.

At one point Gideon says, "God, I hate show business." But that was just a passing feeling. Fosse loved show business,
but he was very aware of its dark side. And he says, looking to heaven, "Don't you like musical comedy." But musical
theater and films don't have to be solely about "life's joys" as many modern musicals have shown. There is a definite tension between the down beat subject matter and the glitzy presentation, but I don't think Fosse was saying musical theater/film are inappropriate for portraying "life's hardships." The tone of the film is not devoid of compassion, but very honest and unsentimental.