MovieChat Forums > The Wild Geese (1978) Discussion > Would real mercs be like this?

Would real mercs be like this?

posted 17 years ago by EvilBaldDude
14 replies | jump to latest

They seem to have the same conventions, command structure, etc, as a unit in the British Army. But surely it wouldn't work would it?

I mean they wouldn't have the same esprit de corps, i.e, they're not fighting for "Queen and Country", they're fighting for money.

Another film about mercs is "Dogs Of War", staring Christopher Walken.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080641/

Now I didn't think that film was as good as this one. But it seems to me a more realistic portrayal of how a real body of mercs would work. They don't suffer any delusions of being a real military unit, they're just a bunch of professional killers who happen to be working together. They do a bit of group of bonding just to ensure that they _can_ work together, but they don't waste time with quaint military conventions, marching and drilling, or trying to play soldier.

They know they're not the Forty And Twa. They're just innit for the $.

Just my thoughts on the matter. But I fully admit that I don't know everything. What do u guys think is a more realistic portrayal of mercenaries?

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] sgtbusmc 17 years ago

Well I can't speak for everyone out there but I am 47 years old. A retired United States Marine, I've been a professional warrior my entire adult life after a stint at teaching and fell to the voting methods of liberals,(which is a story in itself)After first joining the Army and being a member of 2/325th within the 82nd I went into the Marines where I retired, then I joined the Army to continue the mission , and now on a deployment in the Balkans (Kosovo to be specific) and aiming to volunteer for Iraq after this deployment. I am as fit as most soldiers and capable of my duties and thanks to my long years of experiences I am better mentally prepared. But age isn't a factor unless a military member allows it to be. And seeing how I am on the subject here in a Movie based data-base ,I would like to remind you that General Jimmy Stewart had performed a mission over North Viet-Nam while also being the first movie star to join the service in WWII (joining a year prior to Pearl Harbor). War knows no age, and the dead only know that they are dead.

[–] kmontkau 17 years ago

To quote from the biography for James Stewart on IMDb:

In 1966, two years before his retirement from the US Air Force Reserve, he requested and was given permission to follow as a non-duty observer on a mission over North Vietnam in a B-52. This has often, specifically on the internet, been mistaken as his last mission as a pilot. He never flew B-52 as a pilot, nor did he fly any combat mission at all as a pilot in Vietnam!

[–] Chinese_Burn 17 years ago

"To quote from the biography for James Stewart on IMDb:

In 1966, two years before his retirement from the US Air Force Reserve, he requested and was given permission to follow as a non-duty observer on a mission over North Vietnam in a B-52. This has often, specifically on the internet, been mistaken as his last mission as a pilot. He never flew B-52 as a pilot, nor did he fly any combat mission at all as a pilot in Vietnam!"

Mate this interesting, but relevant how?

[–] EvilBaldDude 17 years ago

Would just like to say thank you to all who replied to my post. Usually if you post on an internet forum, it's rare you get a reply, let alone ones as informative, interesting and relevant as all the posts on this thread so far.

For a change it was actually worth it. :)

[–] Chinese_Burn 17 years ago

Hoare was an Armour officer, a Captain I believe not a Chindit. Mann may have got complacent, ucked up or even just trusted the wrong people I wouldn't however say it is correct to call him an embarrassing amateur. Callen the Cypriot psycho was a former professional soldier in The Parachute Regiment and reportedly of some use initially at least before he went mental. For some reason I thought he got done over by other mercs rather than communists, I'm sure you're right though.

To address the original question the structure/command of a mercenary force will largely depend on circumstance of their deployment.

[–] Nomad-1968 17 years ago

From what I have read of Mike Hoare and other mercenaries of that period they ran their units along traditional military lines of command and discipline. Otherwise there was the risk and danger of the whole thing becoming a rabble. I think it is in his book Congo Mercenary that he mentions shooting one of his own men in the feet because he had raped a girl. I am sure he also mentions another mercenary leader who even executed some of his own men for transgressions.

The mercs in The Wild Geese have a clear mission - they are to go in and rescue the leader. They are an organised fighting force/combat group. In The Dogs of War the small team of mercs are there to provide (as Walken's character explains) tactics and support - although in the end they seem to do all the fighting!

[–] trpsarge 13 years ago

Callan, was discharged from the Paras and seved time for armed robbery along with some of his cohorts.

He was executed after show trials in Angola in 1976/77 having been convicted for murder on both sides, had he been extradited he was also wanted in the UK in relation to the murder of at least eleven of his own men.

For a good over view on Angola read 'Firepower' by Chris Dempster and Dave Tompkins;'Guns for Hire' By Tony Geraghty and 'The Whores of War' by Wilfred Burchett and Derek Roebuck.

far more accurate account of what Mercenaries were at the time.

[–] nickm2 13 years ago

Well I wouldn't give too much credence to anything written by 'Wellfed Bull-s**t' as Aussie POWs who encountered him in North Korea called him.

[–] tenkisoratoti 17 years ago

You obviously don't quite understand how strong the British Regimental system is. Each regiment is like its own little army inside another army. The bond you have with it always remains strong.

[–] predone 17 years ago

--
Just reading as many cap badges as I could (with my wonky diabetic American eyes) I was able to identify alumni of the Grenadier Guards, the Irish Guards, the Black Watch, and the Royal Green Jackets besides those of the S.A.S. and the Royal Welsh Fusiliers mentioned in the IMDB "Trivia" secton for this film.

And a ton of people out of the Parachute Regiment, which certainly figures considering the fact that this scratch team of mercenaries was supposed to insert by way of a HALO jump.

Oh good! My dog found the chainsaw!

[–] Pope_Bucky 16 years ago

It may be possible for a mercenary unit to have a certain Esprit de Corps as in this film, especially if they have a legendary leader as Richard Burton is depicted. He has a reputation within the mercenary community to where it is desirable to work for him as this looks good on a resume. Nowadays, the personable leaders are recruited by "Private Security" firms.

For a more ragged version of a mercenary, check out Ed Harris as a mercenary in Under Fire starring Nick Nolte. It's based in Central America (El Salvador?) in the late 70s, early 80s. He plays a much more amoral type of mercenary who is out to protect his skin while chasing a paycheck.

[–] grendelkhan 13 years ago

The closest you will find to a professional mercenary unit would be the French Foreign Legion, though that depends on your definition of mercenary. Mercenaries are not particularly well regarded in professional military circles and most are amateurs with little real background. Hoare's own book talked about the lack of experienced soldiers, with Jon Peters and Siefried Mueller being the exceptions. Bob Denard came from a police background and was most certainly operating under the auspices of the French security services. Frederick Forsyth had high regards for Taffy Williams and some of the other mercs from the Biafran war, who were the basis for the characters in the Dogs of Wa, but he was hardly objective.

The accounts I have read of Operation Dragon Rouge give high praise to the Belgian paratroopers involved, but not much regard for the mercenary column on the ground.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."-Groucho