He deserved 30 years... - Midnight Express (1978) Discussion

[–] creatorof2002 8 years ago

Well he in fact did escape and this is a true story so just think of it as one of those "life is unfair, the bad guy won" kind of things.

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[–] uziforu 8 years ago

ppl get less time for murder op is an idiot

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[–] creatorof2002 8 years ago

There is no 'justice" in the criminal justice system. Bradley Manning is arguably a hero for being a whistle blower and she was told by her lawyer that her sentence was longer than rapists, child molesters and even some murderers (2nd degree murder is usually 20 years).

His sentence was totally excessive. I hope that guard he killed rots in hell.

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[–] rjstephen 8 years ago

''ppl get less time for murder op is an idiot''

yeah i'm an idiot cos i have a different opinion to you, sure. you're the one needlessly calling people names, you're the idiot not me. Grow up a bit fool

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[–] uziforu 8 years ago

If U think someone deserves 30yrs for smuggling hash ur an idiot

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[–] creatorof2002 8 years ago

Even IF someone deserves that long a sentence for a non violent drug offense, here in USA we have draconian drug laws. However, what about proportionality? How can a drug sentence be LONGER than murder (unless first degree) rape, monstrous child abuse and other very violent crimes even though it is non violent? If a drug dealer really deserves 30 years then why isn't the sentence for rape or child abuse well over 200 years (in rare cases it is like that sicko who kidnapped and repeatedly raped his victims for 10 years).

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[–] micklips2013 8 years ago

His original sentence was 4 years and 2 months. Then it was decided that an example was to be made and it was increased to 30 years. Lets not forget this was his forth time of making this type of trip, the amount he had about his body and where he was.

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[–] rjstephen 8 years ago

''His original sentence was 4 years and 2 months. Then it was decided that an example was to be made and it was increased to 30 years. Lets not forget this was his forth time of making this type of trip, the amount he had about his body and where he was.''

yeah, thata all the more reason why i think he deserved the 30 year punishment

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[–] Washingtonnative (2613) 7 years ago

I agree. But, if it weren't for his escape, this outstanding movie wouldn't have been made. So he gets a free pass from me.

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[–] SteveRes (514) 7 years ago

If you watch the documentary about him, "Midnight Return: The Story Of Billy Hayes & Turkey" he admits that he was a seasoned drug runner, and had smuggled drugs out of Turkey into the US many times and had made 1000's of dollars out of it. So yeah, he's far from the innocent this film portrays him as.

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[–] Wuchak (8855) 7 years ago

I wouldn't say the movie portrays him as "innocent" since it plainly shows him committing a crime right out of the gate -- smuggling drugs out of/into Turkey.

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[–] SteveRes (514) 7 years ago

Well the word "innocent" is relative. I meant the movie tries to portray him as a foolish kid who tried smuggling out some pot one time for his own personal use, which is what Oliver Stone and Alan Parker went for, as they admit in the documentary. Parker even admits that if he'd made the film years later with the benefit of hindsight and knowing the full story about Hayes' drug smuggling he'd have made him "more unlikeable and accountable". So yes, this movie does portray a certain "innocence" about him.

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[–] Wuchak (8855) 7 years ago

The actor has a likable naiveté and the movie makes him a sympathetic character to a degree, but I let a friend borrow the movie and he frankly said that he didn't feel sorry for him at all -- if you're willing to do the crime you have to be willing to pay the penalty if caught. Personally, I only felt sorry for him when they switched his sentence to 30 years.

Anyway, I read the autobiographical account in the late 90s and the movie did a good job of capturing the protagonist and depicting what really happened (with some changes, of course). Of course the ending in real-life was totally different: He was eventually transferred to a lower security prison which had farming fields and -- one day while working the fields -- he just walked/swam/whatever to Greece unaware that he walked through a mine field, which Greek soldiers informed him about when he made it over. Lucky bastage.

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[–] SteveRes (514) 7 years ago

Yeah I agree 30 years was insane, even if they knew he'd smuggled pot out a few times. There's a big difference between pot and heroin smuggling for example. All the other foreigners who served at the same time as Hayes had between 2 and 4 years, which is fair. Sadly for Hayes he was a pawn in a political game, Nixon was angry with Turkey that they had reneged on a deal to destroy their poppy fields so the first American they got their hands on they made sure they sent a message back to Washington about how Americans would be treated if they messed around in Turkey!

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[–] degree7 (821) 5 years ago

To echo what others have said, a nonviolent and arguably victimless crime does not warrant 30 years in prison. That’s a gross violation of human rights.

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[–] Wuchak (8855) 5 years ago

Nevertheless, if you go into a foreign country knowing they have strict laws against a certain crime and you commit it anyway, you have no one but yourself to blame if you get caught and suffer the penalty.

In this particular case the Turkish government wanted to make an example of the American offender and so unreasonably increased the sentence.

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[–] degree7 (821) 5 years ago

Well yes, you can blame the system. Innocent people shouldn’t be punished for having harmless fun, and harsh drug laws don’t actually curb their use. People can and will continue to use drugs no matter how much prohibition is enforced. Obviously getting on the wrong side of an authoritarian police state is a bad idea, but that doesn’t mean his human rights weren’t violated. Just like all the people imprisoned for wanting to practice or denounce a religion, or be political activists, or express sexual freedom. Of course it takes a wealthy American being imprisoned for people to actually give a damn.

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[–] Wuchak (8855) 5 years ago

Innocent people shouldn’t be punished for having harmless fun

We're not talking about "having harmless fun," but rather smuggling illegal drugs.

and harsh drug laws don’t actually curb their use.

They do if the just laws are actually enforced and there's no LIEberal media that propagandizes hedonism, including the misuse/abuse of drugs, as countries like Malaysia will clearly attest.

People can and will continue to use drugs no matter how much prohibition is enforced.

Yes, pathetic losers who can't handle reality and have to abuse drugs to "enjoy" life.

Obviously getting on the wrong side of an authoritarian police state is a bad idea, but that doesn’t mean his human rights weren’t violated.

If someone's actions -- e.g. smuggling/selling drugs -- negatively influences others in society to misuse/abuse drugs, and in some cases die from it or, at least, become addicts, such actions are clearly unhealthy for society and the furthest thing from human rights.

or express sexual freedom

I.e. sexual immorality & perversion (which result in all kinds of social ills, like broken relationships, broken homes, unwanted pregnancies/children, abortion, mental illness, sexual diseases and death), spoken like a faithful lil' realityphobe.

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[–] degree7 (821) 5 years ago

You’re a complete nonce, lol. Hashish is a completely harmless plant. It’s the same as giving someone 30 years for having a backpack full of pot. You’re an utterly delusional establishment shill. Damn son, you’re only supposed to lick the boot, not make a meal out of it.

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[–] Wuchak (8855) 5 years ago

Was he smuggling illegal drugs out of a foreign country (with strict drug laws) or wasn't he? Disregarding his folly, I plainly said the sentence was way too harsh, but Turkey wanted to make an example of him for the consequences of smuggling. Your beef is with the Turkish government of the early 70s (when the real event took place), not me.

Otherwise I was just honestly responding to your cliched pro-hedonist non-arguments.

As far as being delusional goes, people who have to partake of foreign substances to "enjoy" life (and often inevitably fudging-up their lives, big time) are the ones who are really delusional.

And I'm the furthest thing from being part of the "establishment."

PS: In case you hadn't noticed, libertinism IS the establishment culture.

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[–] degree7 (821) 5 years ago

“I plainly said the sentence was way too harsh, but Turkey wanted to make an example of him for the consequences of smuggling.”

So you basically agree with me, although earlier you were trying to argue people who use harmless drugs don’t deserve to be treated humanely, and now you’ve flip flopped the issue. So which is it?

“cliched pro-hedonist non-arguments.”

“Hedonism” is not even a crime in most developed countries. That term in itself is a non-argument.

“people who have to partake of foreign substances to "enjoy" life”

I get it, you’re a Puritan.

“...being part of the "establishment."”

Gee, for being so “anti-establishment”, your views sure seem to line up a lot with theirs.

libertinism IS the establishment culture.

What business is it of yours what people do with their spare time recreationally? You’re better off trying to ban alcohol,

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[–] Wuchak (8855) 5 years ago

I agree that 30 years is way too harsh for his crime and that it was wrong for the Turkey government to unreasonably lengthen his sentence when his original sentence was almost completed (which is what took place in real life).

although earlier you were trying to argue people who use harmless drugs don’t deserve to be treated humanely, and now you’ve flip flopped the issue. So which is it?

I never said that. I merely answered your hackneyed pro-hedonist points. You either didn't grasp what I said in context or are twisting my words to suit your purpose. Read what I said again.

“Hedonism” is not even a crime in most developed countries. That term in itself is a non-argument.

It is if it threatens the lives of citizens. For instance, if someone goes to Spring Break, gets all fudged up, and then drives a car and inadvertently injures/kills people. Or if a trafficker seduces youths into the druggie lifestyle and it destroys their lives one way or another. Or if an addict robs & kills others to acquire the funds needed to support his habit. So the party lifestyle isn't necessarily "harmless," as you suggest; and this is why certain countries understandably have strict drug laws.

Other than that, I never said hedonism itself was a crime (whether it's wise or not is a different story). The original topic here is the folly of illegally smuggling drugs across the border in a nation with strict drug laws.

I get it, you’re a Puritan.

No, I merely try not to be a dumb-phukk-itan. More specifically, I support all-things-in-moderation. Excess always leads to hurt -- the individual's hurt and those around him/her.

Gee, for being so “anti-establishment”, your views sure seem to line up a lot with theirs.

Like I said, libertinism IS the establishment culture. So your point is non sequitur. If you disagree, simply open your eyes. Why is anyone who criticizes the shallow "if it feels good, do it" philosophy automatically stigmatized as a "bigot," "puritan," etc?

What business is it of yours what people do with their spare time recreationally?

It is my business if their actions threaten the lives of innocents, including my loved ones, and I don't mean just literally. Beyond that, it's their free choice to escape reality and live in a drug-altered fog if they so choose. But if they enter a foreign country with strict drug laws and brazenly break them, there's a price to pay and it's on their head.

I'm done here. Peace & wellness!

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[–] Adam60z (3781) 5 years ago

"trafficking drugs" means smuggling some pot which is now legal. 30 years in a Turkish prison? OP must be a hardcore rightwinger. Anyway since Erdogan took over they've jailed many people for years for no reason, yes, even US residents. And looks like we haven't heard from OP for 3 years. Could it be he's now in a Turkish prison and has changed his mind?

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