Jon Voight was great, especially his speech to the high school students. He deserved the Oscar. But why does it end with Fonda going shopping and Bruce Dern stripping down and swimming in the ocean? What the hell is that about?
I like tacos, 71 Cabernet and my favorite color is magenta. -Fred
He wasn't going swimming. He was trying to drown himself.
shareThanks. I read the threads and realized that is what is supposedly happening, but who kills themselves by drowning? Wouldn't it make more sense to have him shoot himself? He was a soldier after all. Would that be too cliche? The drowning is just odd.
I like tacos, 71 Cabernet and my favorite color is magenta. -Fred
It was meant to be ambiguous, if he straight out shot himself the audience would know that he killed himself. While the general idea is that he committed suicide, his death is uncomfirmed and fate is open to interpretation.
shareI thought it was dumb, too. Swimming naked in the ocean is such a contrived way to commit suicide. And yeah, the final shot with Fonda walking into the supermarket and "Lucky Out" appearing on the door... I guess that's supposed to imply that now Fonda and Voight are "lucky" and can be sleeping together again... how convenient!
shareI agree with you wholeheartedly, Singinggorilla, that the ending was dumb. I would even take it a step further and say that the ending ruined the movie (at least for me). Having one of the central characters commit suicide in this particular movie makes sense because it brings to light the fact that many Vietnam veterans did commit suicide. However, having two out of the three soldier characters in the movie commit suicide is too many. Also, it's so contrived. Now she gets to live with John Voight because her husband conveniently committed suicide. That's a truly stupid ending.
All in all, I wouldn't call it a good movie. It was an average movie with a bad ending = BELOW AVERAGE MOVIE
I have to disagree. I liked the movie. I've since watched it again a couple times and feel that Jon Voights' speech to the students was some of the best acting I've ever seen. It's riveting, I think because it feels SO true.
The ending? Meh.
Sadly, before this I had only seen Voight in National Treasure and Mission Impossible. Oh and Deliverance, but I so dislike Reynolds I can't watch Deliverance again. I need to see Midnight Cowboy; it's on my list. I have alot more respect for Voight now.
I like tacos, 71 Cabernet and my favorite color is magenta. -Fred
I thought that the movie was very beautiful and touching and the performances were all outstanding. But I tend to agree that the ending doesn't really work. I felt sympathy for all the main characters for different reasons but I would prefer another way for this movie to end. Especially the last scene with Fonda and the 'Lucky Out' sign implication seemed needless.
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
I don't even have a problem with the suicide. It works for the story. It was a convenient way for Fonda and Voight to be together without losing sympathy for Fonda due to the cheating. And I am sure countless soldiers come home from war overwhelmed by their experiences. But drowning? No. The most logical way a soldier would commmit suicide would seem to be with a gun.
Other than that, this is a movie I was not expecting to like as much as I did.
I like tacos, 71 Cabernet and my favorite color is magenta. -Fred
Okay, here is the opposing voice on this thread. I've seen this movie more times than I can count (and it's on now, thus my desire to write) and firstly the "Lucky Out" sign is not, in my opinion, the convenient go ahead for Fonda and Voight to be together. It means; Lucky out, as in her "luck" just ran "out", she's out of luck. She is coming back from the market to a suicide. No note, no nothing, just that he drowned himself after coming home (thus the title) and after finding out about her affair. The guilt for her will be devastating. And she is already such a tightly wound person, this will crush her.
As far as choosing a drowning for his method of suicide, it kind of fits w/ his "going far away from here" theme. Remember he said "I don't belong here!" His character was completely unhinged (BEFORE he went to 'nam) and his ritualistic manner of undressing and running into the ocean fit w/ his "going away" theme. It's as if he didn't just want to die, he wanted to get far far away.
Some people on this board think he went into the ocean, not as a suicide but as a "cleansing." It is quite clear that he kills himself but others take it a different way. So maybe his drowning was meant to be provocative in some way? Just adore this movie.
While this isn't my favorite movie, I'll admit it has its moments and has sort of grown on me over the the years. I think your ritual cleansing theory is an interesting angle that helps to explain his particularly odd choice of suicide, which is inconsistent for a Marine Captain, IMHO. Many films have done worse, chalking it up to 'artistic license.' That there are so many negative opinions of that scene is evidence that any other of Bob's intentions were poorly nuanced.
Ditto with your contrarian 'out-of-luck' idea; it's worth considering. The world is what you make it, my friend!
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wait for iiiiit...
He killed himself in the ocean to cleanse himself. To shoot himself would have been reminiscent of the war. "Lucky Out" to me was like people saying"You are lucky you are out of Vietnam," but you are never really "out." You carry that experience with you.
shareDamn, I am sorry, but if you didn't get it, you are truly clueless.
Remember earlier in the movie when he told Fonda he wouldn't take off the ring? Right before he left for Nam? Said it would be his good luck charm.
Ok, so let's break it down: He comes back from Nam royally effed up. Finds out his wife has been having an affair. Can't deal with that OR his demons.
Takes off his ring (HELLO!), walks into the ocean and disappears. HE DROWNS HIMSELF.
As for her "going shoppping," did we watch the same movie? Right before he strips down to takes his life via an ocean swim, she tells him she's going shopping with Vi. Makes a comment about his lighting a barbecue, how long it's been, etc.
Do you all recall that Dern accidentally shot himself with a gun while walking to the shower when he was in Vietnam? He had seen himself as inept with a gun.
There was the scene when Fonda tries to wake him up after he was up all night partying with his friends in the house, and she discovers a gun in his hand. At some point he had contemplated shooting himself during his inebriated state.
Then there was the scene where Dern confronts Fonda and Voight, who had arrived to the house to reason with Dern over a complicated situation. And Dern had to be talked down by Voight to prevent him from firing his rifle, eventually handing it over to Voight.
1) Dern felt too inept at completing his suicide successfully via a gun
2) He was tired of the violence and wanted to die in the most peaceful way he could, in the meantime cleansing himself of all the evil that had invaded his soul.
To me it wasn't a "dumb" ending, just low key.
Not sure why everyone is fixating on the drowning. The film starts with Dern running, and ends with him running (albeit briefly) - his destination has changed, as he is no longer the same person.
As far as the last shot, it's just a mundane reminder of Fonda doing something ordinary, trying to live a "normal" life, even on behalf of her husband despite his shattered condition, and it leaves us pondering what life holds for her going forward.
The bear does not quit. The bear will not die.
I disagree with you entirely.
It was both a great movie with a great yet subtle and artistic ending 'a la Hal Ashby' made in such a manner to provoke discussion amongst viewers. Not all films have to be full frontal and direct to get a message across, that's the beauty of the cinema and what splits artists from mere filmmakers, the latter abundant in this 'anyone can direct' age we are going thru, but turning a film into a canvas as if it were a painting requires talent, savvy, emotion, knowledge and a way to use the tools in hand as if they were a brush and acrylics.
The problem understanding this film may derive from the apparent straight forward look of common everyday realism, which is completely the opposite, though, it's evident it's chuck full of discreet symbolism, that don't cross over into the vulgarity of cramming them one on top of another so that the story becomes a surreal experience and detached from the reality of Vietnam Vets.
Dern wants to die a hero, he wants to be a hero for just one day, and after he officially becomes one, his time is up and then decides to take his own life, as someone within this thread wrote 'cleansing' himself in the sea. A death less violent, a death less messy, folding absolutely everything and putting away his lucky wedding ring so that he does not botch the call of the sea. By disrobing to his nakedness he purifies himself and leaves the soldier and marriage behind, and in so doing he leaves his demons from 'Nam' and the ones found after he knew he was being cheated on. The ring might've saved his life but it didn't keep his marriage intact. Hyde (Dern) doesn't get enough help from the very same country for which he fought for, after officials told him, a severely damaged soldier, that his wife was involved with another man who was crippled, an anti-war activist and possibly thisd made him feel less of a man, hence less of a hero and a soldier. He feels a 'jody mothereffer', as he called Martin (Voight), took his wife.
Also, when Dern receives the medal both him and Fonda know he doesn't deserve it, yet remain stoic. He shot himself in the foot, not something that makes you a hero.
As I understand, death is also known as 'Going Home' therefore, Dern is 'Coming Home' to a place of peace and tranquility as all homes, in theory are supposed to be. Fonda, on the other hand will come back home to a suicide, her luck runs OUT. She won't end up in Voight's arms as in a common vulgar romance would make it end up. Her life, even if she lives until she dies a natural death, is already over, e.g. OUT, and she's now the bearer of Vietnam's Demons as so many women still are.
Dern didn't pull any trigger, he just wasn't capable of it, but he was a victim of circumstances, and said circumstances were the explosive in his death.
Everyone is a victim here, no one is to blame. Loneliness, solitude, permanent injury, unfaithfulness, war itself on all fronts of life and the deeper wounds life an inflict on an individual.
One more thing is during Voight's speech/talk at the end, he says "war is not like the movies", which the director, Hal Ashby, uses perfectly by not recurring to war flashbacks in between dialogue, and even so, this IS a war movie.
Thank you for reading.
P.S. Personally, I like this movie much more than The Deer Hunter, to which Coming lost the Oscar against, it's 100% more accurate about the Vietnam War than The Deer Hunter was, but as most of us know, the Oscars is a popularity contest than anything else and The Deer Hunter had more money to push for a win.
"The longest line is never outside the best restaurant."share
Stanley Kubrick
You say...Fonda, on the other hand will come back home to a suicide, her luck runs OUT. She won't end up in Voight's arms as in a common vulgar romance would make it end up. Her life, even if she lives until she dies a natural death, is already over, e.g. OUT, and she's now the bearer of Vietnam's Demons as so many women still are.
I agree with her and her lover won't end up together. She did love her husband despite what she did to him. The guilt would never let her dishonor him again even though he is dead. She has to feel she played a part in his demise. I also feel if Voight is the person portrayed he he will back off.
Thanks for explaining it so well.
There were some comments about suicide through drowning being an unrealistic approach. I think you dealt with that very well. It is also a rare form of suicide with no other victims and a level of ambiguity about it. He could change his mind, he might even change his mind too late and drown, and after he drowns, you can still believe he did not commit suicide at all. It's a kinder way to do it than having his wife find a body with a hole in the head ...