Goldstein, no matter how hard he tried, just never could fit in with this gang. So, to all you TWS fans, who do you think his best friend on the team was, if he had one?
Hayward seemed to be his biggest antagonist, sneaking a girl into his house when he was supposed to be keeping him company, and then dressing him down for not taking a full scholarship after graduation.
Your thoughts?
Don't really think there was a BEST friend, although it seems he was at least respected by the rest at the end of Season 2....but I think Hayward might make a good argument for best friend on team as well. You'll recall he stuck up for him when Albert Hodges didn't want him around for the team meeting, he seemed to be cheering Goldstein on when he and Vitaglia got into it during the episode with the Russian team, and was the first one to include him on his team for the money game when he showed up buff and shorthaired....
shareHere's how I think everybody registered on the No-Love-for-Goldstein Meter:
High-Hayward, Thorpe (both rarely passed up opportunities to jab at him)
Mid to High-Coolidge (he and Cool did room together in Vegas), Vitaglia (for the fight before the Russian game)
Mid-Salami (Salami hung out at the arcade with him in the boxing episode), Gomez (didn't want to sit with him on the plane to San Jose)
Mid to Low-Jackson (reassured him about the tough guys before Salami sprained his knee), Reese (they never interacted together that much)
I'd agree with the Thorpe ranking. Remember in "Just One of the Boys" when Haywood was telling Reeves that a no-no for a guys rep was crossing your legs on the bench implying that that was something gay guys do?
Well, in "Me?" when the team was talking in the hallway about their last game and Goldstein seconds Jackson's desire to have blown that team out to which Thorpe cracks Abner saying "Aw yeah Goldstein you really had them shaking in their boots man the way you were sitting on the bench with your legs crossed", which everyone gets a good laugh at good ol' Goldstein's expense. So, he was pretty much calling Goldstein gay.
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I couldn't believe that stuff with Hayward and goldstein. He finds a key under the mat, let's himself in. Eats his food out of the refrigerater, Brings a girl into his house without asking. BUt apparently that's ok because the girl said something to him. when the girl asked goldstein if he likes contact sports or something to that effect, he looks like he's about to have an orgasm because a girl talked to him. Then Hayward says he wants to show her the rest of "goldstein's" house. Geez talk about disrespectful and using somebody for a walking doormat
shareGoldstein was one of those guys who takes a lot of abuse, but they would all have his back if someone were to seriously come after him. Honestly though, how could someone with his character have made it onto the basketball team? He had no sense of competitiveness or aggression. He didn't seem too coordinated. If anything, basketball would've given him the confidence to overcome those shortcomings.
shareHere's another example I ran across.
In the episode "Airball" while waiting at the baggage claim Hayward cracks on Goldstein saying "we all got to wait around here just because Goldstein brought a suitcase full of motza balls?"
Keep in mind this is just after they all were all thinking they were going to die in a plane crash.
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he probley got on the team cause he was tall... iam quessing
shareI think except for the one Abner episode about his grandparents, Goldstein never really was portrayed as the outright outcast he seems to be seen as. Sure he was a little different and a little more 'goofy" maybe, but he also was pretty cool at most times, screwing around, looking good, fit and muscular, and was just as much a part of the gang off-court than anyone especially where certain hi-jinks were concerned. And Goldstein would razz other team members just like they'd razz him, like they all did.
Again, except for that one episode where The White Shadow as a show sold Goldstein out and made him really goofy and stupid and very much the outcast. It never was like the script in that episode - like when Goldstein makes his speech about being an outcast, not being fairly treated by the team, then never leaving a seat for him, etc, remembering past episodes it simply never was like he's describing. This always kinda grated on me because the show portrayed Goldstein like a bumbling fool while in every other episode it simply isn't nearly as bad.
But as far as a best friend on the team, yeah I'd have to probably agree Hayward seems to like Goldstein a lot, it'd probably be Hayward.
>>> I think except for the one Abner episode about his grandparents, Goldstein never really was portrayed as the outright outcast he seems to be seen as.
I really disagree with this. In many episodes leading up to this episode, almost every time Goldstein opened his mouth, someone would shut him down and everyone else would agree. They stuffed him in a locker in one. Coolidge put his hand on his mouth for about 5 minutes in another. They were constantly harassing him, so much so that I actually think that they may have had the Goldstein episode in mind all along and that all those episodes were leading up to it.
I cried because I had no shoes üntil I met a man with no sole. ~ Ancient Disco Proverb
So many people can't stand Goldstein for being who he was. Certainly he wasn't popular... but I think his character was very authentic.
Most of us like to think of ourselves as socially acceptable to others. But I think that virtually every environment we are in- school, work, church, membership clubs, etc- there will be at least one person with poor social skills that does not know how to relate to other people. And I think when you don't have good skills and then try too hard to make people like you- as it seems Goldstein often did- it only makes it worse.
However, I've noticed that in looking back on these old episodes, many of the things Goldstein said were really no different than the other immature comments the other guys made. I think this just proves what I've long believed: it's not so much what is said; I think it's about the person who says it. In other words, the way this person can get away with saying what the other person can't.
I don't know if you can see it online anywhere but ABC ran a great program on 20/20 several years ago called The 'In Crowd' and Social Cruelty exploring just what it is that makes some people popular and others the object of cruelty and ridicule. Excellent program.
I think only his grandparents called him Abner. And maybe that waitress he asked out when he was on leave from the military. I forget which branch he served in. I remember Hayward complimenting Goldstein on his physique in that same episode.
I related a lot to Goldstein. My last name is Goldberg. I was also raised by my grandparents in a neighborhood that was mostly Black and Latin. People think all Jewish people are wealthy and/or live in the suburbs. I can testify that is a huge steaming pile. I stood out like a turd in a punch bowl my entire life. After a while it stopped bothering me.
I remember at an old job most of my co-workers were Black women. I LOVED that place. I knew I wasn't one of the girls. But they always made me feel like one of the gang. I didn't act any different. I was just myself. And they liked me for who I was. Maybe they were impressed I wasn't freaked out by being the only white guy who worked there. Folks are folks. That is the bottom line.
You didn't see Goldstein socializing a lot with guys who weren't on the basketball team, but that didn't mean it didn't happen. In some racially mixed schools kids from the same backgrounds tend to congregate together. It doesn't mean they hate the other races. Sometimes they have a little more in common. It might be something like music, but that is HUGE when you are a teenager.
People used to ask me how I got by being one of the few Jewish and white kids in the neighborhood and in school. I didn't do anything out of the ordinary. I treated people with respect, kept my mouth shut and minded my own business. And everyone thought I was crazy. And most people don't want to mess with you if they think you are crazy.
Yeah Goldstein was kind of gooofy sometimes but he did hang around the team most of the time and had some good comebacks when they ripped on him. It's also been said by the cast that he off the set Ken Michaelmen who played Goldstein was actually a decent basketball player. I would agree that he was closet to Hayward. I actually think Reese and Jackson liked Goldstein the least. Remember the beginning of the "Little Orphan Abner" episode where Goldstein goes up to Reese when he's with the girl to congratulate him on the game and Reese just pushes him away. And when the Coach asks about Goldstein Reese says something like "he's out of place and he don't catch much of what we say". And Jackson told Goldstein probaly the meanest crack on him in one episode, "Goldstein no girl in this school likes you". Kind of true but man you ain't gotta say all that!
shareWas Goldstein ever seen with a date? Was interracial dating ever addressed in an episode? It may have been harder for Goldstein to find a girl because whites seemed to be a minority at Carver High. But he didn't have to date a white girl. And he did not have to date someone who attended Carver. When I was a teenager and you said your girlfriend went to another school everyone thought you were full of crap. But sometimes it was the truth.
The other guys busted Goldstein's chops for crossing his legs on the bench. They thought he looked soft, not gay. If they thought he was gay he would have been ostracized. There was an episode "One Of The Boys" featuring a character named Raymond Collins played by Peter Horton. Collins was rumored to be gay. The rest of the team wanted absolutely nothing to do with him. They wouldn't even bust his chops.
He had a date (or at least was dancing with a girl) at the "LeGrand Finale" school dance.
When Salami was talking to a girl about going to Mexico in "Feeling No Pain", he mentioned the fact that Goldstein had some "cherry bombs", presumably either to light and create a disturbance in school so they could go to Mexico, or to sell to get money for Mexico.
In "LeGrand Finale", he was the one who taunted Karen with 'Karen LeGrand, the One Night Stand!'...the team seemed to go along with it...