There was a thread about the reasons why they didn't move on some time ago:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075784/board/thread/232995069
Something like the incident did happen but the reality of the situation is there were only four Shermans that had crossed the Nijmegan Bridge at that point in time- the rest of the British tanks and infantry were still fighting in Nijmegan itself trying to secure the town and defeat German resistance there. Those four Shermans were ordered to wait for their infantry support. Even if they had drove to Arnhem- and somehow survived en route there- what of earth difference would four Shermans make? The SS had more and better tanks there. The only thing that would have happened if those four Shermans had moved on would have been the losses of both the tanks and their crews. Put simply, they would have been slaughtered for nothing.
By the time Americans took the bridge at Nijmegen
The Nijmegan Bridge was taken by the Grenadier Guards from one end and the US Airborne from the other, the British Shermans driving onto a bridge which they knew might be blown at any moment so stop making stupid comments about them stopping for tea- that's pissing on the memories and in some cases graves of brave men.
Don't forget too that the US airborne blew the opportunity to take Nijmegan Bridge in the first place, when they arrived it was almost undefended- perhaps they stopped for coffee? Their failure to take the bridge meant that they had to wait for British XXX Corps to get there before it could be done.
The operation included failures by both the British and the American foirces involved- the US Airborne also failed to take the Son Bridge too, also causing delays.
One last thing, these stupid comment about stopping to take tea, always directed at the British for some reason implying cowardice or incompetence- ALL soldiers of every army take any opportunity to take sustenance as they never know when they will have the next time to. US Soldiers would use any time they could to brew up some coffee if there was even a moment to do so. That didn't make them incompetent either.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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robrosenthal1
10 years ago
The incident in the movie actually happened but it wasn't Major Cook who had words with the British tank officer. T. Moffatt Burris was a captain commanding a company in Major Cook's battalion and was one of the men who made the Waal crossing depicted in the movie. It was Burris who went off on the Brits as shown in the film.
I'd also point out that, according to Burris, at a meeting before the river crossing, General Horrocks promised that if the 82nd made it across the river and took the bridge, nothing would stop him from forcing XXX Corps through to Arnhem.
Whether that part is true or not, who knows, but even if it was only "the scuttlebutt" among the boots on the ground, it would explain to some extent the bitterness.
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Buddy-Love63
10 years ago
I'm afraid the whole Burriss thing is a lie. Probably made up by him long after the war. Burriss also lied when he claimed the British had a "whole corps" of tanks ready to go but did nothing. This wasn't true in the slightest. Only 5 Shermans made it across the bridge that evening and 3 of them were damaged.
The rest of the Guards Armoured Division was strung out over 25 miles supporting the 82nd Airborne all over the place, from Nijmegen itself to Groesbeek. Some even had to turn back towards Eindhoven as the Germans were attacking Hell's Highway.
There simply was no way for any sizeable tank force to have sped on to Arnhem on the night of the 20th. The units had to be recalled, re-fuelled and re-armed. It was best to wait until the next day.
Carrington said no American captain said anything of the sort to him and his orders were not to go on to Arnhem anyway but to secure the bridge from German counter attacks, which was fully expected to happen. His orders were no more than to take the bridge and to prevent the Germans from taking it back. Carrington himself bravely guarded the north end of the bridge in darkness with just his sole tank, for nearly an hour until relief support turned up.
By the way the 82nd didn't even take the bridge. The 4 British tanks did. Carrington in the 5th tank came a bit later. The 82nd Airborne only had a beachhead on the other side of the Waal river and they were 1 km away from the north end of the bridge by the railway viaduct. It was the British tanks that raced over the bridge as dusk came down and they took and secured the bridge.
General Gavin, commander of the 82nd, made some silly comments as well. When he was asked why the Guards Armoured Division didn't race on to Arnhem that night he said something along the lines of " I don't know, I could give no answer". Well he SHOULD have bloody known because it was the Guards Armoured Division that he kept asking for support for his own unit's problems all over Nijmegen, Groesbeek and Mook on the 19th and 20th. In fact the Coldstream Guards Group of the Guards Armoured Division actually had to act as part of the 82nd Airborne and was attached to them when the non arrival of the 325th Glider Infantry Regiment left the 82nd Airborne short of infantry. The Coldstream Guards were ordered to be attached to the 82nd and helped beat back an attack by the Germans at Mook at the same time the Waal river crossing was being prepared. That is why the Guards Armoured Division was dispersed, disjointed and strung out over dozens of miles, trying to help Gavin's own paras beat back various German counter attacks and why there was no way they could have proceeded to Arnhem on the night of the 20th as there was no sizeable coherent tank force ready to do it as they had just spend the last 2 days helping the 82nd do the job the 82nd were supposed to have done 3 days earlier. The Nijmegen bridge was supposed to have been already captured by the time XXX Corps arrived there.
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Buddy-Love63
10 years ago
Those four Shermans were ordered to wait for their infantry support. Even if they had drove to Arnhem- and somehow survived en route there- what of earth difference would four Shermans make? The SS had more and better tanks there. The only thing that would have happened if those four Shermans had moved on would have been the losses of both the tanks and their crews. Put simply, they would have been slaughtered for nothing.
Indeed. The Waffen SS was already increasing in tank strength at Arnhem. Also, fifteen Tiger Is of Schwere Panzekompanie Hummel had arrived in Arnhem a day before the Nijmegen bridge was taken and there is no way the 4 or 5 Shermans would have been able to do much against those had they gone on to Arnhem that night.
The Nijmegan Bridge was taken by the Grenadier Guards from one end and the US Airborne from the other, the British Shermans driving onto a bridge which they knew might be blown at any moment so stop making stupid comments about them stopping for tea- that's pissing on the memories and in some cases graves of brave men.
The American 82nd Airborne didn't even take the north end of the bridge. They were 1 km away by the railway viaduct. They had only established a beach head on the other side of the Waal river. British tanks took the whole bridge.
Don't forget too that the US airborne blew the opportunity to take Nijmegan Bridge in the first place, when they arrived it was almost undefended- perhaps they stopped for coffee? Their failure to take the bridge meant that they had to wait for British XXX Corps to get there before it could be done.
Absolutely. The failure of the 82nd airborne to take the Nijmegen bridge on schedule on the 17th put the operation back 2 days. 2 crucial and battle losing days. When XXX Corps arrived in Nijmegen on the morning of the 19th, the 82nd Airborne had failed to have the bridge ready for them to roll over and then XXX Corps spent the best part of 2 days supporting them and helping them take the bridge when the bridge should have already been taken days before.
The operation included failures by both the British and the American foirces involved- the US Airborne also failed to take the Son Bridge too, also causing delays.
Yes indeed.
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